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What is the point of brexit?

(55 Posts)
varian Wed 11-Sep-19 21:17:22

We all now know so much more than any of us knew three and a half years ago about the damaging effects of any kind of brexit and the disastrous effects of a no deal brexit.

How on earth can anyone possibly justify this brexit nonsense?

Let's just agree that the whole thing was a huge mistake and thankfully we still have time to stop it.

Dyffryn Wed 11-Sep-19 21:21:53

There will still be people arguing we need to leave. You are wasting your time.

Dinahmo Wed 11-Sep-19 21:22:44

The extreme right just want to cause chaos. It suits them to leave without a deal, to stir things up and watch the outcome. They will be OK because they have other ways of making a living and so won't be affected by what occurs after brexit. Quite frankly they don't give a toss about ordinary working people. They've had 10 years of government during which time they have brought about austerity - just so that they could reduce the country's debt.

notentirelyallhere Wed 11-Sep-19 21:31:37

I feel sadder and more alarmed by the day. Did you see that today Merkel is warning that the UK may become a Singapore style danger on the EUs doorstep? And it seems that Johnson is keen that we should have a buccaneering style of trading, ditching all existing standards. I am so pessimistic about the future, we will be worse off and so will the Earth. What climate change doesn't need is rampant Capitalism. I fear for the young.

notanan2 Wed 11-Sep-19 21:38:34

People haven't changed their minds.

People I know who voted leave are still leave
People I know who voted remain are still remain
People who were on the fence are still on the fence

I don't think a vote now would have a significantly different result.

jura2 Wed 11-Sep-19 21:48:30

I do believe that you know the answer Varian, for ERG and all those multi-billionaire financiers who support them- it is, and was from the start, to avoid new EU Directives on Tax Evasion and Tax havens.

Nothing less, nothing more. Simple.

Bridgeit Wed 11-Sep-19 22:49:35

Unpopular I know, but I think we should have a 2nd referendum.
Choice being, now you have more information do you still want to leave or do you want to remain.

Callistemon Thu 12-Sep-19 02:02:48

Could you please explain a Singapore style danger on the EU's doorstep notentirelyallthere? as I haven't heard that expression before.

growstuff Thu 12-Sep-19 05:13:25

Douglas Carswell (UKIP's former MP) wrote a book advocating the UK adopting an economy like Singapore and some other MPs have mentioned it.

The idea would be that the UK would become a low-tax financial hub, based on the City of London. There would be some mega-wealthy people and everybody else would depend on them for crumbs from their table.

Manufacturing wouldn't really exist.

It works for Singapore, which has a tiny population and relies on immigrants to do menial work, but the UK is over ten times more populous than Singapore and has a completely different history.

absent Thu 12-Sep-19 05:42:57

jura2 i think you are absolutely correct to a very considerable extent. That was probably uppermost in the minds of those with lots of money, particularly those with offshore bank accounts and the funds to pay high-powered accountancy firms to manipulate their figures and the existing legal loopholes in tax law. They certainly led the way and urged the leave vote.

However, there were undoubtedly many who voted leave whose financial position was in a far less comfortable place. Some, perhaps, fully understood the workings of the EU, Byzantine though they are, who still believed leaving was the better option. There were others who were deluded by misleading statements about sovereignty, which was never lost to the UK, as well as Boris's "straight bananas rule" and other lying nonsense. I think the "promised" extra money to the NHS was an immense lure as it is so dear to the hearts of everyone and has suffered a severe lack of funds for many years under Tory false austerity.

I think there are also those who believe that the UK is overcrowded and cannot take any more EU workers, immigrants and refugees, although, perhaps, they didn't calculate that many of those already in the country in vital jobs might decide to leave in the event of Brexit. Then there were those who are outright racists who seem to think that all the foreigners – especially those with brown or black skins, who wore turbans or saris – would be sent "home". Ditto about those from the EU who came to work – hugely reliably – as plumbers, kitchen fitters, bathroom fitters, carpenters and other tradesmen of whom there are not enough.

crystaltipps Thu 12-Sep-19 06:13:03

Some will still believe the lies since Brexit has become like a religious cult with St Nigel as the messiah to lead believers to some promised land. They aren’t going to change their mind by facts or expert analysis, even that of the government. There will never be any benefits of Brexit, we have been asking to be told for years and never had a reply, other than the £350m a week for the NHS and to get rid of foreigners. We know neither will happen. Some admit they were lied to but still don’t care, such is the strength of cognitive dissonance. It’s ironic that many of those elderly voters who voted to “ stop immigration“ will have been cared for diligently and kindly in their last months by immigrants. (yes I do know of some people like this).

varian Thu 12-Sep-19 06:54:37

Brexit backers stand to make billions

Bridgeit Thu 12-Sep-19 10:03:50

Excellent post Crystaltips.

varian Fri 13-Sep-19 09:15:50

Speaking on his LBC radio phone in programme, Rees-Mogg admits if public had 'informed decision' now second referendum would 'overturn' Brexit

varian Fri 13-Sep-19 09:17:23

luluaugust Fri 13-Sep-19 09:29:12

Surely the biggest problem was that people weren't informed and had no idea what the EU did for us other than apparently send people over here to take 'our' jobs. I know from where I live a large ethnic minority thought that if the European citizens were stopped their nationals would have a better chance of coming here. It's all crazy muddled up thinking - when will it end?

Davidhs Fri 13-Sep-19 09:35:56

In direct response to the OP, why did it happen.

Because David Cameron wanted to silence a few, maybe a couple of dozen extreme right wing Tories who were causing trouble in the party. He called a referendum he was confident of winning and ran a half baked campaign, he underestimate them and lost.

The rest is history, thanks Dave.

MaizieD Fri 13-Sep-19 09:36:23

People haven't changed their minds.

Perhaps, notanan had better get on twitter and follow @RemainerNow. Lots of people have changed their minds. We even had a 'mindchanger' post here on Gnet the other day.

Here's a typical tweet:

"Hull Faithful

Turkey was the one that fooled me. I knew the 350m for the NHS was a lie, but genuinely thought Turkey joining the EU was true ?"

jura2 Fri 13-Sep-19 09:55:24

Perhaps that if you live in certain areas and towns, you may get the feeling that people have not changed their mind. It does not mean that, overall, people have not changed their mind. Must take demographics in consideration too, as many older people who voted leave are no longer with us- and many who youngsters who were not old enough to vote, are ready now. And many of the younger generation who did not really realise how serious the situation was, and how it will affect their future, and did not bother to vote, will NOT make the same mistake twice.

Let's be clear, there is only ONE reason why so many are resisting a New Referendum on the CURRENT situtation, and it is because they know they would lose, and with a significant, clear, majority.

BlueBelle Fri 13-Sep-19 10:09:40

It’s the saddest thing that’s happened in my lifetime and I m depressed that we are handing our grandkids this dreadful situation that could at best take decades to tight and at worst end in conflict with our friends
I do not want to recognise this hideous divided England that I am so ashamed of
I want to continue working with, enjoying and welcoming Europe and my fellow Europeans
Who ever complained about EU before that bloody referendum
Cameron needs exiling

Rowantree Fri 13-Sep-19 10:16:30

Agree, Bluebelle - completely! I'm scared and depressed for my children and grandchildren. And utterly embarrassed to be British. So much so that I'm seeking to claim German citizenship, just in case I need it.

Cameron has a lot to answer for. He's spearheaded total upheaval in the UK and in the meantime, no progress is being made, no issues are being dealt with properly and people are suffering and WILL suffer because of it. We should be addressing poverty, the NHS, our crap education system, homelessness...not to mention the environmental emergency which is our precious planet which is being systematically destroyed.

MaizieD Fri 13-Sep-19 10:21:55

Oh, do cheer up, ladies.

By the time we're all dead and our DGCs are approaching middle age Britain will be Great Again, the EU completely shattered, and it will have been worth all the pain...

I agree with every word you both say

Atqui Fri 13-Sep-19 10:33:17

I can’t understand why people are so against a 2nd referendum. “We had a democratic vote” they say . No one tells us we can’t change our minds and vote for a different party when we have a GE . The Tory’s are in power due to a democratic election, and yes I voted Tory - but never again! It’s 3 long years since the referendum, and in that time there are thousands of young people who’s future is at stake , who weren’t old enough to vote in 2016

growstuff Fri 13-Sep-19 10:40:57

Errmm...or we could be confined to the history books. Rome used to have a great empire. Egypt used to be an important country. England (without Scotland, Ireland and maybe Wales) will be a tiny little country off the coast of mainland Europe with a few heritage sites and a sweatshop economy.

MaizieD Fri 13-Sep-19 10:54:34

But, Atqui, Cameron promised that it would be a once in a generation vote. That trumps every other argument, don't you know?