Labour Party Conference - chaos reigns.

I loosely agree with the LP arguments regarding private education, but think there's something rather draconian about abolishing private schools, although in many ways I find them elitist, but it's about choice and personal freedoms. I don't know quite how those in the higher echelons of the party would square their own use of the private sector with their party's raison d'etre in the matter. To my mind you can't be a socialist and send your own children private, it's not egalitarian, if you believe in a level playing field then include your own children in that concept. One or the other, if you use the private sector, don't call yourself a socialist

Wasn't there a research study that found that, out of state educated and privately educated children who entered university with the same A level grades, the state educated children got the better degrees? Privately educated children coached in exam passing techniques but less able to cope with the independent study needed at university...

What I have always found strange is that state schools are charged VAT and pay business rates when private schools are exempted by claiming charitable status. They're businesses, for heavens sake...

And so does stopping the ridiculous Charity Status for private schools, which currently makes NO sense at all.

coaching is one thing - having to share a large class of 30+ including a variety of special needs and very challenging behaviour, is another. Children in Private Education are given huge advantages, in 100s of ways - so it is right to try and redress the balance when it comes to limted places.

And it has serious research behind it - which indicates that youngsters with lower grades achieved in State Ed, often have much higher potential in Higher Ed, for all sorts of reasons- so again, it is not about limiting places for privately educated students, but about redressing the balance to reflect the above.
Makes sense.

I was educated privately, had to we lived in HK, no choice.
My children went through the state system, had to, no money.
They have done really well. I know that was then and this is now but all my nieces and nephews, a lot younger than my children have thrived.
A lot of public schools attract money in from abroad, I’m not sure if this helps the treasurer but it could help intercontinental relations?
We can have both systems. We need more teachers and need to support them more. We need the government to stop interfering and changing the system every 5 minutes.

jura stopping a percentage of children from private schools going to university was discussed at the conference today

If a child in a state school has coaching and gets their grades they go on to university but a child in a private school must be banned ? Brutal

For another thread perhaps?
But no-one is 'banned' from going to Uni- just not selected for a particular Uni or course, in this particular year. A great opportunity to take a year out and grow up, get some experience and maturity, etc.

I was 29 when I went to Uni - I am currently sponsoring an ex-student starting Uni tomorrow, who is 47.

because it is about improving chances for kids who have not benefited from a 'better' education and highly intensive exam preparation and coaching, which result in Higher A'Grades for those in the private system.

A child is sent to private school, works hard, passes his/her exams but is banned from going to university and you agree
jura ?

actually makes sense to me.

Limiting the number from private schools who want to go to university.

This is so wrong

Ilovecheese- yes it is difficult. But I can't blame them.

We actually could have afforded to send ours privately, but we chose not to. As it happens, despite some ups and downs- it has served them hugely well as they are able to communicate and deal with, all sorts of people, at all levels, in confidence.

"So what does Labour intend to do about lost jobs, an unstable currency and higher prices? What is their intention for Ireland and Gibraltar? What about the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU?"

Hopefully that is something that they will discuss at the conference, and come to some sort of agreement.
I know that they intend to support a new green deal if in Government, which will lead to more jobs, as well as helping the environment.
I seem to remember when the result of the referendum was first known, the Labour Party suggested that the rights of EU citizens who were in the UK should be guaranteed, but the Conservatives wanted to use them as leverage in the negotiations. So I imagine if Labour came to power they would then give them that guarantee.

I hope some answers to these questions will emerge at the conference.

I'm not "anti Labour" Ilovecheese. I'd really love to see a Labour government with pragmatic, social democratic ideas, but I don't think we're going to have one.

Within a few weeks, it's highly likely that the UK will be out of the EU. One way or other, there's going to have to be some kind of deal, whether or not that's negotiated before or after we leave.

The Labour leadership seems to be in favour of Brexit, so I'd like to know how they're going to mitigate all the problems there will be - and there will be problems - not pie in the sky ideology about private schools.

Yes, if there really is a Labour government, it would be good if charitable status were removed from private schools, but there are going to need to be parallel initiatives to make sure every single school is a good school. Governments have been grappling with that for decades and there isn't an easy solution.

So what does Labour intend to do about lost jobs, an unstable currency and higher prices? What is their intention for Ireland and Gibraltar? What about the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU?

Thanks Whitewavemark2 I will have a look.

lvecheese try the next government thread

It is a problem, I agree jura2 everyone wants the best for their own children, and while our state system is inadequately resourced those that can afford it may feel that they must go private or they are not doing their best, while still feeling sorry that they had to make that choice.

I guess I was maybe lucky never having to make those choices as I couldn't have afforded them anyway when mine were young.

It would be nice to have a thread to discuss the policy ideas put forward at the Labour Party Conference.
I'm not sure if I would like to see private schools abolished but would like to see them lose charitable status.
I'm also not sure that just discussing one issue i.e.Brexit, is a good idea, there are a lot of other issues that need talking about, particularly how we can make this nation more equal, and how we should tackle the very real poverty that a lot of people are experiencing.

But the trouble with these anti labour Party threads on Gransnet is that they are never really a discussion, but become a sort of list of dogmatic assertions or casual insults towards anyone who is left wing.

It is an argument I do not buy, sorry.

If the NHS will not provide safe and adequate treatment for your child - it is perfectly acceptable to say 'safe and adequate treatment should be available for all, and I will fight to ensure this is the case ... but in the meantime, my child needs the treatment NOW, so I will have to, unfortunately, have to ge the treatment privately.

Same for education. DD1 is totally against private education in principle. Both our DDs went to the local primary, local middle and then 6th Form - and we were often criticised to it by most colleagues and relatives who sent their privately. But ... after a few years in their local primary school, it became apparent that juge class sizes and children sent to the school with severe problems without adequate support- GCs education and welfare (bullying and severe disruption of classes, etc) were really compromised. In the end- they chose to go private, with great success. DD1 and SIL really regret that was necessary- and do believe excellent education should be for all.

When did the Labour Party have a confrence where chaos did not reign?

In an ideal world, I'd like to abolish private schools too - or at least, have schools so good that nobody would want to send their children to private school.

However, it's an issue which has been going on for years. It really isn't going to be solved overnight, nor is the place of the monarchy, etc.

Doesn't Labour realise that the big question people want solved is Brexit?

I'm not entirely sure what he meant by that. Richard Murphy (of Tax Research UK) reckons there will be a backlash against Fisher.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/09/22/labour-needs-to-lead-right-now/

Diane Abbott supports abolishing private schools, when asked
about her sending her son to a private school ?

‘That was years ago, we are moving forward now’

So ok for her son but not for anyone else’s son or daughter

Fisher was giving his reason for standing down from being a close aide to Corbyn , he said the Labour Party lacked common decency.

No disagreement from corbynites here ?