The slippery slope - dictatorship anyone?

JohnD, we have a general election every 4 years because the situation of the country changes and people change their minds. This is what makes a democracy, imperfect as it is, so much better than a dictatorship. People can change their minds and vote in a different government based on the responses of each political party to the issues of the day.

Why then are you worried about having a second referendum now that people have a better idea of what Brexit entails? There is strong evidence that Remain would now gain a majority, so isn't it better to have a vote on it to ensure that the current will of the people is respected?

I hope your quotes around the word dictator don't refer to my OP. I did not say that Johnson was a dictator, I only implied that he and the country have crossed a line on to a slippery slope. It is in Johnson's hands to take himself and us off it.

Its absurd to talk as though we believe that all 650 MPs are corrupt, deceitful, incompetent and out only for their own advantage.
All this is new and deliberately fuelled by those who find themselves in a jam and are trying to get out of it by blaming everyone else. The behaviour we saw last night was inexcusable.
Deliberately turning the general population against parliament, which appears to be the aim, is very dangerous. Mob Rule anyone?

Bercow was simply speaking the truth jura !
Bad behaviour came from all sides of the house.

I believe the next step is going to be to change the law itself so that the government may prorogue and/or call an election any time. This will mean that if it comes to court in future the law will clearly support the prorogation and the judges would not in future be able to rule against it. After all, parliament makes the laws that judges uphold

For goodness sake Elegran ! Am surprised that you are going down this rather hysterical road with the others I must say.
Could we give Nazi Germany a rest.

Buster- I am NO fan of Jeremy, and I would not vote for hm to become PM - but I am afraid, today of all days- I have to say that Corbyn's behaviour in the Commons yesterday was calm, collected- and despite being goaded and riled, and mocked ... he stayed calm and responded very well.

Bercow admonished the House today - saying both sides behaved very badly - for balance and good measure. But I am sure he knew very well who he was really addressing - those who used terrible language and even used Jo Cox despicably and disgustingly- and they were all on the same side- and mainly in the front row. Shame.

As said yesterday- the whole world is watching and shaking their head in total condemnation and disbelief

No-one is above the law - that is the point at stake here. Once a Prime Minister is allowed to think that he can thumb his nose at the judiciary, he has been allowed to believe that he is God.

Posters have often been criticised for reminding people of the rise of Naziism and Hitler's appalling dictatorship, but anyone who can't see the shadow of that creeping over us is mesmerised by sheer showmanship and blaguery.

First a vulnerable country. Germany was vulnerable as a result of the first world war, the reparations and the destruction of industries, and a sense that they were looked down on. The UK is vulnerable as a result of the failure of the policy of tightening the belt, which was supposed to pull us out of widespread world problems, but wasn't working.

Second, the need to blame non-nationals for all tribulations -in Germany foreign workers "taking our jobs", waves of asylum seekers arriving from troubled countries, the dilution of national identity as a result, in the Uk all these, plus the right of movement to and from othe EU countries bringing in skilled workers from across the channel (the chance for the British to work on the continent as freely as in Britain doesn't seem to have registered with everyone)

Then the argument about space - lebensraum in Germany, "too many people" in the UK.

Many reasons why there is unrest around.

Then arises a "national saviour!"who harnesses the unrest and puts a focus on it - Make Germany as great as it used to be! or Make America Great again! or Free Britain from the chains of the EU! They have the orating skills to move crowds, the deviousness to promise anything to get the voters behind them and fulfil their wish for power, the ruthlessness to throw opponents, competitors and doubting colleagues alike under the wheels of the juggernaut of their vaulting ambition.

The judiciary (guardians of the nation's legal framework and hence moral code) calls them to account and pronounces that they are over-stepping their authority - in Germany the judiciary are denounced as "enemies of the people" and replaced with Nazi party members, in the UK last night we saw how little respect our Prime Minister has for our independent legal system.

Extremists are encouraged to attack minorities with impunity, public money is spent in dubious ways, members of the cabinet make millions speculating on sterling while the trading future of the country is in the balance, the head of state is manoevred into granting permission for a devious attempt to avoid the scrutiny of Parliament while a constitutional emergency is under way.

I think some of you should try living in a real dictatorship.

Climate change, a large number of politicians who are out for their own ends, religious issues, rising tensions in the Middle East and people who shout the loudest seeming always getting their way. What a time to be alive...

To get it straight though.....he did not know it was breaking any laws ( remember, this has never been ‘judged’ before)
It’s a big constitutional moment, as for the future, any MP’s can now take things before the courts (Westminster decisions.)
Secondly, he did say that although he thought it was wrong for courts to intervene in political matters, he would abide by
The ruling.
That being the case, an apology was not necessary.

Explained well here

www.facebook.com/ITVPeston/videos/2279379185506624/

and by Anna Soubry today in the House. Regular death threats for them but also their children, partners, family - with the regular 'ah we have researched you, we know where you live' and so on, day in, day out.

Are you saying Jane, that all they needed to do to avoid this, was to vote for Mrs May's Deal and be done with it- against their convictions. As Anna said today, women in future will be too scared to go into politics. Both my daughters have begged me not to attend the March in October- as they are too scared I could get hurt.

Yes, no nursery- the rise of Dictatorship indeed.

JohnD what about (those MPs who represent constituencies that voted heavily in favour of Remain? Are they given permission to ignore their wishes?

It's not just Boris Johnson it's Jeremy Corbin too . I'm afraid parliament is acting like a load of spoilt brats . They will never agree on anything . I know that I rather have Boris Johnson in charge than that slimey Jeremy Corbin . I mean what is that Diane Abbott doing there , she can't get anything right and doesn't bring anything to the party . Labour wonder why there a laughing stock , they have no chance all the time Jeremy Corbin and Diane Abbott are involved .

No Sussexborn That is not the only choice. Everyone in the UK will have the chance to vote Brexit, Green or Liberal. Voters in Wales can vote for Plaid and those in Scotland can vote SNP (currently the 3rd largest party in the Commons). Voters in NI will also have different choices and there will probably be Independents throwing their hat in the ring.

I fear that the party who will lose out most this time, will be the Monster Raving Loonies as they will be unable to out looney the major parties.

The antics in the house if commons was shameful. The ministers in the background cheering Johnson in and smirking just showed them in their true light. I do think that we are not that far from a dictatorship. Who could have envisioned the political establishment sinking so low? I wonder what future generations will conclude?

Chestnut - Boris was being attacked from all sides last night, so what do you expect him to do, curl up in a corner and cry?
He was attacked from all sides because he broke the law, refused to apologise, undermined the Supreme Court, and promised to break the law again.

Whatever he is, Johnson is one of the few MPs that is fulfilling the promise they all made when they entered parliament after the 2017 election, that they would honour the result of the Referendum. If he is a 'dictator' what words describe the hypocritical turncoats that are ignoring there constituents wishes?

It’s all political strategy ( from all sides!) plus some genuine anger ( also on all sides.)
Westminster has always been a bear pit, read the history of it.
This was more bear-ish than normal because of Brexit.
What did anyone expect Johnson to say? His whole political life now hinges on him getting us out of the EU, as he has promised, and I may add, as all (just about) MP’s promised to do three years ago.
Strong language was flung about from all political sides, and yes, insults too.
Jane10 was quite right when she likened it more to the nursery than Nazi Germany ( although some posters do love likening almost anything to that dark, evil regime of the 30’s and 40’s.)

what is even more concerning than 'his' words and behaviour, and even more akin to 1933- is that people buy it, go with it, excuse it, and are prepared to support it ...and THAT is seriously worrying beyond worry.

Same with Trump.

In this febrile atmosphere where there is such brutal rhetoric, we only need an economic implosion, which is highly likely with a no deal, then it will be an immensely dangerous time.

Jonathan Pie analysed this kind of speak very well in his latest video. Can't share as the swearing is very very ripe (and oh I don't blame him) ... but....

Sorry forgot to add the bit about us heading towards being a dictatorship.

Indeed, he told Peston last night- with a smirk- that he would both abide by the Law re asking for extension, and also come out on 31st October - what has he got up his sleeve???

I didn’t think the post was about the poor choice of leaders we are faced with; I thought it was about the awful behaviour in the House of Commons yesterday & the poo pooing of entirely justified concerns re the safety of MPs and their children by the PM.

Just a reminder that while people may find Bollocks to Brexit, models of severed heads etc. offensive, these slogans and acts are neither illegal nor designed to undermine the law of the land.

Johnson's proroguing of Parliament and his stated intention to ignore the law with regard to leaving the EU without a deal and refusal to ask for an extension of our leave date, are illegal. His, and Cox's, ignorant disrespect and virtual denial of the legality of the Supreme Court's ruling are far more serious than a few legal, if sometimes puerile, acts of defiance.

Without respect for the law by the current or any other government, we as a country are well and truly doomed.

The resemblance between Johnson and Trump becomes closer by the day. They are even both about to be brought down by allegations of corruption.