Why are "Leavers" so angry?

MaizieD, yes our EU partners will be angry- and I truly can't blame them. The decision of a small minority of those who voted, and a tiny minority of the population - voted to Leave.

It has wasted them huge amounts to time and vast sums of money- for a decision they never had a say in. It will affect their businesses and supply chains, their agriculture, and so much more. And yes, it has rocked the foundation of the EU- and yet, at the same time, make them stronger and more united than ever.

Abbey- the Referendum was NOT binding. Cameron had NO right, according to our own Sovereign Laws, to say it would. If a cross party agreement said that, say, a second Referendum would be binding, with a certain minimum % minority stated- than it could be. But Cameron could not make that decision on his own.

Secondly- the Electoral Commission has proven beyond doubt that it was fraudulently manipulated, on several counts. And because of the above, they cannot act upon it and cancel- because, by our own Laws, it was advisory, so not 'legal'. As not 'legal' they can't use normal Law to cancel. Is that not totally wrong?

Our Law states 'No judgement of a court, no order of a Minister, can be allowed to stand if it has been obtained by Fraud. Fraud unravels everything' Lazarus Estates Ltd versus Beasley 1956 / 1QB702, 712.

The situation since 2016 has changed massively, and we now know the implications and consequences for the Good Friday Agreement, for research, medicine, utilities, businesses and supply chains, hospital, care homes and agriculture, import/exports, safe standards, and so much more.

In the view of the above - I cannot see how some still think that it would not be fair to allow people to vote on the current situation.

Trump said the USA is sick of being taken for a ride regards NATO growmore

All EU countries should have been putting in 2% of the GDP. We put in 2.1% Most other EU countries keep falling far short. No wonder Trump decided it was time to call them out! Fair’s fair.

You see abbey amongst all the anger, insults and protests you have posted there is one glaring incorrect statement which to my mind encapsulates how Leavers will twist the truth to try and make their point. wrapping yourself in an EU logo ( it isnt a flag as the EU is not a country - yet
My dictionary defines flag as-
a piece of cloth or similar material, typically oblong or square, attachable by one edge to a pole or rope and used as the symbol or emblem of a country or institution or as a decoration during public festivities.
So it is a flag.
You see no matter how much you rant about the aggression of Remainers (and your post is the sort of Leavers' anger I was asking about) they do not post lies and untruths. And I find them singularly understanding to Leavers given that there is very little chance that we will Remain.

This blue flag waving is really getting on my nerves now.

abbey, you are so right about the results of shutting down free speech. It makes one wonder what on earth Johnson was thinking about when he unlawfully shut down Parliament to prevent debate.

Absolutely Bobbysgirl ??

growstuff....stop the goady stuff to abbey and move on for heavens sake, to say you are finding it ‘fun’ says a lot about you.

Are the hoovers lightweight though, mine doesn’t seem to be.
Just lower power I think.The EU army and having a federal state is a definite aspiration led by Germany and France, and since they are the biggest players in the EU this isn’t just a vague idea.Now we are leaving, this idea will be kicked into the long grass probably.

PS. Psychologists study human behaviour in general, not just people with mental health issues. Given that this thread is about why "Leavers" are angry, I thought it would be interesting to unpick abbey's posts because she's certainly angry.

Am in my car, about to set off to see a client, so can't spend any time checking this, but I've looked up speeches about the so-called European army in the past.

My understanding is that Trump has said he doesn't want to contribute so much to NATO because he feels that the US contributes too much.

Merkel and Macron have said that they would like to see a European army on the NATO model, which seems to make sense if the US wants to withdraw funding. Given that modern equipment is horrendously expensive (and hopefully isn't used that often), it also seems to make sense to pool resources for use when necessary.

AFAIK (and I read both the German and French press), it's an idea and possibly at the discussion stage, but it's not happening.

PS. I don't see why the UK shouldn't be part of a European defence force outside the EU.

It’s good to have an adult discussion on Brexit but not to turn it into a game in order to upset people and seemingly to enjoy having done so.

In my opinion as an observer there are a few posters on Gransnet who have come on here with the sole intention of goading and insulting others, and are still throwing in their very childish quips. They cross the line of being polite and respecting the view of others, to the point of mocking others.

EU C02 Standards for cars and light commercial vehicles.

When it comes to environmental issues, we regularly hear people say 'there's no point me/us doing anything, unless they do (they meaning 'the rest of the world).
I would be the first to agree that the EU is not 'the rest of the world', but it's a good start. And I presume that the UK government agrees, and is likely to carry on with this when we leave.

I don't know if it's true or not that you can't buy a new car with a proper spare tyre any more (Started trying to Google it last night, but found nothing), but the option of buying one as an extra remains so not a big deal really (note to self - do what you were going to do when you bought your car nine years ago, and do this very thing before it's too late!!!).

The power of vacuum cleaners?
Yes, I remember the furore over that. I also know that, presumably as a result of it, there is now a whole new generation of brilliant lightweight, lower energy cleaners in our homes.
Again, a plus in my eyes.

The proposed EU army (thorough I can't find the post relating to that now to check the exact claims made)

Yes, some countries, notably France and Germany, are pushing for this.
However, I can't find anything to support the claim that "it's definitely happening" (I think that was roughly what was said), or even what form it would take. Several member countries have problems with the idea.
We remainders are the ones always accused of scare-mongering, but currently, that claim appears to be just that - scare-mongering!

Just my opinion, but of course I respect anyone's right to disagree with me, though I would prefer it if they do it in a calm, reasoned and rational way.
Like anyone else, I sometimes get things wrong, which is why I personally like it when assertions are backed up by links (to reliable, reputable sources), so that I can learn from them.

Yes Elegran this change to women’s pensions had Cleggie’s mucky prints all over the paperwork. He was the one who accelerated what should have been a very gradual change by, at a stroke, bringing forward those changes by 10 years!

As a WASPI I’m sceptical as to we we haven’t heard yet anything about the Supreme Court judgement on this. They reported back to Gina Miller in 3 days. We’ve waited another 3 months! Actually that’s not quite fair. Their ruling has been made known to the government. Why aren’t they telling us I wonder?

Mamacaz "This Directive shall be without prejudice to the right of Member States to exclude from its scope" translates into normal English to mean "But they DON'T HAVE to do this for the following . . (a) the determination of pensionable age for the purposes of granting old-age and retirement pensions and the possible consequences thereof for other benefits;" to comply with the Directive to equalise ^"men's and women's rights in matters of social security^ so you were right - The EU did NOT force the UK government to muck about with women's pensionable ages.

It suited the government of the day to give the impression that they were being forced into this by a nasty EU, to divert the blame from themselves. In the same way, successive governments have done the same whenever they didin't want to take responsibility for anything they thought might be unpopular. Bent bananas and a lot of other fake stories were just that - dreamt up by the press to sell papers when there wasn't much news.

Me too GG13

No good being angry. Just get even - at the ballot box!

Abbey obviously thinks two wrongs make a right and it’s perfectly ok to hurl insults around whilst at the same time complaining about being insulted. Talk about rank hypocrisy.

I recognise your generosity, GG13 even though I'm happy to dispute with you when occasion arises. But on the day that we leave the EU I shall be every bit as angry (possibly even more so) as our newest friend here. Not least because this whole thing has been engineered to protect and enrich the very wealthy and has destroyed the whole moral compass of a significant percentage of the population.

abbey I voted leave.

I would have liked to have left on 29th March.

I am not bitter and angry with other’s who chose to put their X in a different box.

No growstuff but a Brexit Bully may have done. Let's face it if you follow the incitement the parliamentary Brexit Bullies offer in parliament, this is the result.

We have (mainly) leavers and remainers in our family. Nobody has ever got angry or slung insults. We are intelligent, educated, respectful adults who recognise the right to hold an individual opinion.

We can discuss our reasons for voting the way we did, despair at the ineptitude of our government and wonder when this whole sorry mess will get sorted out.

Watch your blood pressure!

Why do you have to try and explain anger in terms of some personal psychological mental illness? Another way of belittling those of us for whom this is important?

Clearly it doesnt matter to you - so why mess around discussing it then? It does mattwer to me.

I explained my anger but that is not good enough, it has to be because I am somehow unhinged - according to you.

This is a result of three years of insults, being ignored, lied to by successive governments, watching remainers constantly complaining and finally having democratic wishes over turned. But thats not good enough for you aparently.

The thing that has turned me most is the constant drip of insults I have heard and endured from remainers over the last three year. I have bottled up my anger because I thought it didnt matter, all would go through.

Whilst many remainers do not know my thoughts and feelings because I have not spoken out, I have become increasingly angry at them and gtheir gloating and belittling comments over the last three months. It was bad enough before - three years of insult throwing and I said nothing.
This has happened to me in real life, not just on some forum. I actually mentioned it once immediately after the referendum because I had been upset by some comments and was unable to respond at work.

Remainers have bullied and bullied and bullied and then ask why I am angry - and when you get told, you ask again as if the answer was not good enough isnt that just a little disrespectful in itself?

Not satisfield with that you have to keep the pressure up with snide asides like " the gift that keeps on giving" - how would you like it if I said the same things to you because I disagreed? Why is it you (remainers) can make such comments and are seen as "reasonable" . You can protest and cry and shout and scream and protest but if I do it I am am some sort of mental case. Isnt that also disrespectful?

I have said nothing about those behaviours for three years. It is your right to protest, to cry to complain - but equally I have a similar right. I have tolerated you, but you have not tolerated me. Tolerance is something you love to talk about but are not good at doing - as per your thought police.

There is very well evidenced psychological research that shows that when you stop people speaking and shut down free speech you dont actually change their thinking, what you do is send deeply into their emotions and sooner or later it will out with vengeance ( and that is not incitement to violence - its a psychological fact).

If you want proof of that take a look at those Eastern European countries who after years of iron rule by Tito found themselves free and started to fight each other. The factions had not grown to love each other because Tito made them live together. It got more deeply ingrained. It all but ended in a genocide. Then they spilt into their original separate countries as that was the only solution. That is just one example. Go and look for the others. There are many.

You ask why people are angry. Well if you shut down half the populations thoughts and feelings, thats what you get. Its not mental illness.

Has Mark Francois, Geoffrey Cox or Dominic Cummings invaded the site undercover?

This is the gift which keeps on giving.

psychologist (typo)

.... and if you do not think that wrapping yourself in an EU logo ( it isnt a flag as the EU is not a country - yet , they are trying for it) and crying or going on marches and complaining that the end of the world is coming because the thick brexiteers have destroyed you life ( and all of that started the day after the referendum), is infantile, then look again at the behaviour of your little ones. It is reflected in many of the behaviours remainers have exhibited over the last three years.

Forgive me for thinking that since it worked for you, its time to copy you.

Morning fellow tarts!

Have a good day! I'm off to work, but it's been fun reading this thread over coffee.

Maybe somebody could find a psychological and explain the recent rants. It certainly would explain why leavers work themselves up into an angry tizz.

Ciao!

Crystaltips - how many times have you seem the same phrases or worse to describe leave voters - I have been called swivel, gammon, fruitcake, thick, unable to understand what I voted for, too stupid to be allowed to vote and worse r words and b words and similar have been applied. I have had that for three years all over the media and all over sites like this..... the minute I say the same thing back, you are offended.

Why? The words jump at you but I am not supposed to notice them when directed at me. I will refer you to the topic of the thread. I am on topic.