Why are "Leavers" so angry?

NanaAlix - the voice of reason.

newnanny 'In a referendum situation only one side can win. So will of the people.'

I am afraid, this depends very much where you live and what type of Democracy your Country has. In Switzerland, your comment would be correct. In the UK, it just is not- we have a Parliamentary Democracy, and Cameron had no right whatsover to run roughshod over our own Sovereign Laws, which are 100% clear on the subject : Referendums in the UK are and can only ever be, advisory.

And yet, even in a Direct Democracy system as in Switzerland, where Referendums are binding- the advice given prior to any Referendum has to be very inclusive and checked independently for accuracy and truth. No Red Buses and lies.
And, if it is later proven that a side lied or gave false information, or hid dangers, etc- the Referendum would be called null and void.

The truly ridiculous situation is that the Electoral Commission found clear evidence of fraud and deliberate lies- which would make a normal vote void- but cannot cancel the result as it was not legally binding, eg advisory only- whatever Cameron said- according to our own LAWS.

Do Leavers want to go back to our own Laws - or do they not?

It would appear that the government's strategy is to inflame people, so that we have riots and it can call a state of emergency.

Is that really what leavers expected?

If there were a strong case to leave, the government wouldn't need to resort to dirty tricks.

Greece suffered at the hands of Germany because it's in the Eurozone (and because it fiddled its books to join the EU in the first place). The UK is not and won't be in the future in the Eurozone.

I think many people who voted to leave (as distinct from this strange undefined breed of person called a Leaver) would like a proper and orderly leaving; this mess is not in anyone's interests.

Puzzled! Poland didn't become a member of the EU until 2004.

How can what happened in the 1980s be blamed on the EU?

I'm not angry. It's not good for heart and blood pressure, so I do yoga and mindfulness exercises.

notentirelyallhere - totally agree with your longer post - starting to despair myself. It should never have been put to referendum, in my opinion. Both sides of the argument have a variety of platforms on which to vent and are making full use of them. Politics, like religion, has been a taboo topic for decades and we've lost the ability to argue with passion and decency. It really makes you wonder if this was all set up with some ulterior motive? Divide and conquer?

In a weird counterpoint to Joelsnan's post about the EU causing job losses, one of the huge gains that the EU achieved for the North East was the establishment of the Nissan factory near Sunderland. I moved up here a couple of years before Nissan came and remember the jubilation with which it was greeted. It is now reckoned that some 30,000 jobs locally depend on Nissan. Not only people directly employed but also those employed by NE suppliers to Nissan and all the associated services which the prosperity of the directly employed people enable (shops, cafes, hairdressers etc. etc.)

Now on the way out....

I'm gutted for them...

In a referendum situation only one side can win. So will of the people.

Brendan O'Neil, far right Brexiteer activist and writer- said to day on BBC that Leavers should take to the streets and riot

Day 6- why not give factual answers to questions asked. Asking valid and relevant questions is not condescending, in any way or shape whatsoever.

I voted leave and I am angry that 3 years after vote we have still not left EU.

MP's made such a fuss that parliament was not sitting. Boris was ordered back to parliament but MP's all went home Thursday afternoon and don't want to come back until Monday afternoon. Basically they made a fuss just to get their own way and cost tax payers millions.

Remainers' use every parliamentary trick they can think of to stop Brexit with the help of the biased Remainer speaker, such as seizing control of order paper from government.

MP's in large Leave voting areas such as Hull 72%, are not following the wishes of his constituents and then wonder why he is getting angry constituents criticising him. I don't agree with death threats but he should realise just how angry he is making his constituents as no death threats before he went against them.

Lib Dems have the audacity to say they will revoke the will of the majority of referendum voters because they want to and they think know best.

Labour are saying they will vote against any deal Boris brings back. They want to negotiate with Barnier or whoever replaces him for a Remainer deal keeping us in SM and CU and then offer a further referendum with the Remain deal or Remain and for them to campaign to vote against their own negotiated deal. Madness or what?

One MP brings up Jo Cox, in a hysterical rant, when there was no need and then gets angry when Boris says the best way to honour her is to get Brexit done.

Remainers' should understand until we leave EU things are unlikely to calm down the country remains divided. Once we are out I think the arguments will stop over time.

I hope Boris can find a way to get us out without a deal now. Any deal can come after we come out so on more equal terms with EU.

Shouldn’t there be a thread that ask why EVERYBODY is SO angry. It isn’t the case that Leavers are angry and Remainers are not , or the other way round.

They are all furious for a variety of reasons and as every day passers any chance of any middle ground disappears in a puff of smoke!

Trisher
I know that China and India did/do some offshore work, however I specifically watched the Employment and social impacts in UK and other EU countries. And my decision was based upon pre-Brexit concerns.

So in their non fact-checking, easily influenced, 'super British', overwhelmingly victorious minds

See what I mean? How condescending.

Hold on notentirelyallthere ..... what limited thinking? I merely made a statement of opinion , I gave no background to how I voted or why I said that.

You have no idea whether I voted to leave or remain ...are you blaming me for both sides of the argument now?

Talk about pompous and judgemental !

This is a thread for Remainers to

a) have a go at Leave voters ( yet again)

and

b) to crow that they are superior (yet again)

Yawn.

Joelnan I can understand that job losses are a concern but many have gone to India and China-so are nothing to do with the EU.
Brexit itself has cost thousands of jobs
smallbusinessprices.co.uk/brexit-index/

If you are looking for a reason why SOME Leave voters are so belligerent you only have to look at their leaders who have been dropping the insult "Remoaners" quite freely and in any circumstances since 2016 amongst other things.

Their leaders promised a concept without explaining how it could be achieved but different campaigners suggested different forms of Brexit, none of which was No Deal; now if you ask a Leaver if this was what they were voting for (because no-one told them that it might happen) they immediately respond that David Cameron said it would, even though they were clearly NOT voting 'Out' based on the warnings of the problems - and in the same breath they still disbelieve the problems that No Deal will incur.

They've been made to feel that they not only had a majority but that it was almost unanimous - it's been referred to as The Will of The People' since day One. They have forgotten that only slightly less than half the people that voted had a different will, they refuse to acknowledge that many doctors, teachers, social workers, nurses and other professional tax paying parents of British children and grandchildren weren't allowed to express their will, and they don't care because these people have now been relegated to 'sub British' and irrelevant.

So in their non fact-checking, easily influenced, 'super British', overwhelmingly victorious minds, they believe that despite the overwhelming vote of the people they are being thwarted by a small group of men and women rather than realising that these are the people that are putting country first.

So, Petra, what are the great advances that Brexit will bring that are the equivalent of getting votes for women? Ignore "sovereignty" for the moment - that is the only thing that we hear about, and we already have that and no-one has any intention of giving it up.

Ignore, "It will keep out illegal immigrants" too, because most of those come from non-EU countries, and if they arrived hidden in lorries no amount of "freedom from the EU" would have stopped them.

The problem now is that ALL trust in the Tory government has now gone, that applies to the EU side too absolutely nothing will be done on trust or good will. They have proved themselves liars time and again, in event of no deal we are going to need a lot of goodwill.
The Europeans I speak to are simply incredulous that we are leaving in this way and the language being used so we can expect them to make sure the correct documentation is presented for every cross border movement. Moreover to get a good deal on trade, that has to be done with goodwill on both sides, not confrontation and distrust

This acrimony is going to last a long time way beyond any deal, or no deal.

I am struck by the similarities on this thread to the situation in the HoC on Wednesday. One side asking questions and the other side not answering.
I was reflecting on the situation I find myself in with a friend. She sees anger in so many people, in so many situations. My belief is that she is a very angry person and her smug, pseudo courtesy (passive aggression?) is fooling nobody.
Thankyou to those who are genuinely interested in getting answers to your questions and, just possibly, trying to find common ground and move on.

Lemon ?

the legislation for women to have the vote took over 50 years to enact
Why was that. Mmm, let me ? Was it because 'they' didn't want us to have it ? Much the same as to what's going on now.

Grapefruitpip
I have made the case for my decision time and time again on this site.

In the 1980s I watched the largest local industry in the town where I lived at the time relocate to Poland. I wrote to the local paper asking what would happen to the local skilled labour and the fantastic engineering apprenticeship scheme they had. The response was that it could be done cheaper in Poland. The sandwich shops and the small allied industries around also closed.
I watched as more articles appeared with more industries taking the same route.
Then I started noticing these now derelict sites being flattened and turned into car parks and the like and blue plaques going up stating that the beautification was done with EU money. WHAT! The EU does not have any money, its funds come from the taxes paid by the people who are now in semi or unskilled work because their work is now in Ukraine.
I see wagons on the motorways around here full of parts that previously would have been made here near to the assembly plant that these wagons now service. Once assembled these products get a Made in UK sticker on and a premium is charged for them.
I have watched as the more affluent countries have basically enslaved the workers of the poorer EU countries, building super highways to get there parts and products from these countries whilst doing the minimal to raise salaries and living standards. Why do Poles, Romanians etc still want to work in UK when there are industries back home..ask yourself?
I see much of our infrastructure is now owned by EU entities because the directive on open bidding means that UK businesses who provide decent Ts and Cs and pension provision for their staff cannot compete with those from other EU countries that reduce the Ts and Cs of their country enabling a cheaper bid.
I see the drive towards Federalisation which again is only really advantageous to the stronger countries, but see the problems to the smaller ‘financially enslaved’ countries whose strong cultural identities would be swamped by the dictats of their ‘masters’. Germany and Greece come to mind.
I find it interesting that people talk about job losses post Brexit when over the years thousand have trickled abroad without the same outcry.
I also find it interesting that remainers say leavers are manipulated by the rich elite to leave, when it was them squealing in the run up to the referendum, even rolling in Obama to try and frighten the populous in backing remain. This so they could keep their intercontinental trucks rolling and vast profits rolling in.
I could and previously have given other reasons.
I now expect the usuals to say the above is rubbish because I haven't mentioned immigration.

Pantglas2, no one asked anyone else why they voted Leave. The question asked, was "what are the advantages of leaving the EU?" I genuinely want to know a) because I might sleep better at night and b) the advantages must be truly amazing to elicit such passion and commitment.