33 days to go .... What’s the Brexit plan?

Actually, Joelsnan, your post at 15.30 is such a distorted view of labour relations and legislation over the past few decades that I can't be bothered to argue the toss with you about it.

I'm just amazed that you should think that the tories would do anything at all to retain or improve workers' rights when they've done their best over the years to get rid of them.

GracesGran Mk3
Most employees at such as Sports Direct are employed through employment agencies and are rarely direct employees. Another huge benefit of EU employment protection NOT!

Your idea of democracy Joelsnan is not necessarily the democracy we have, although, of course, it may be. What has anyone actually done that is undemocratic? The answer to this usually boils down to "something I didn't want to happen" as opposed to something that is actually undemocratic according to our system.

Grandad1943
Maybe things have changed, but I remember that all workers hours were governed by WTD. Some individuals could opt out if they stated their wish to opt out in a letter. Some industries did not allow opt out. The 48 hour week was averaged out over a period of 15 weeks. I think the 15 week rule was brought in at a later date because so many employers and workers complained. Initially there was no averaging.

MaizieD
It appears you are one of the 1984’ers.
If your Tory employment scenario does emerge, can we not vote in a different government or do we live in your apparent tin pot dictatorship?
I know there are many currently trying to destroy our precious democracy, however and hopefully these will not prevail.

Such a pity companies like Sports Direct don't think as you do GG13. Thankfully we don't live in a patriarchy or a matriarchy but by the rule of law about which workers, as well as employers, have, at the moment, some influence.

MaizieD. Speaking as a business owner we have just extended our maternity and paternity leave, and it’s on full pay.

If you have competent loyal staff it is in the Company’s best interest to look after them.

Just out of interest, how do the ex pats living in Malaga feel about Brexit? I read that there was an anti Brexit march there the other week; people worrying about health care etc.

Sadly, Joelsnan and Ug, you are both retired so you won't experience the bonfire of workers' rights that the tories would like to hold if we leave the EU.

Such a shame as I'm sure you would really enjoy it.

And I'm sure your children and grandchildren will be really grateful to you for your vote.

[grrrr]

Urmstongran Quote [ I absolutely hated the working time directive Joelsnan but the hospital Trust I worked for had to abide by that EU rule] End Quote.

Urmstongran, I am unaware of the employment position you held with the above mentioned hospital. However, the only employment categories that must comply with the working time directive are:-
Transport staff who are 'mobile', such as train drivers.

Mobile air transport workers who are covered by the Aviation Directive.

Seafarers who are covered by the regulations regarding British registered vessels and the those covered under the Inland Waterways Working Time Regulations.

Lorry and public transport drivers, i.e. those who must hold LGV and PSV licences.

Off-shore workers.

Ambulance personnel, firefighters and prison staff are covered, although regulations are waived to deal with emergencies.

Many of the above workers can work more than 48 hours in any week, but the average must be no more than 48 hours over any six or twelve month period.

All other workers have under legislation the option to "opt-out" of the 48-hour maximum working regulations if they so choose.

I am in the office working at the moment, so cannot enlarge on the above further, but will later if time allows.

Link to the above regulations can be found here:-

worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/hours-and-holidays/working-hours/which-groups-workers-are-not-covered-working-time-rules

Excitement mounts for tomorrow. I don’t want to count my chickens, I did that once before when Theresa May brought her deal back for the third time!

It’s very close.

According to The Spectator, David Trimble is in favour of Boris Johnson “deal”.

I should be careful about changing the "intellect" of others Joelsnan.

I absolutely hated the working time directive Joelsnan but the hospital Trust I worked for had to abide by that EU rule. It meant I couldn’t work more than 48 hours a week. My job was interesting. I hated (with a passion) ironing, cleaning and so I used to work more hours, get paid and pass my overtime money to my weekly cleaner and ironing lady! Happiness all round.

I listened to McDonald this morning about the loss of employment rights etc.post Brexit and also Rupa Huq on Jeremy Vine and could not believe my ears. Quite frankly I cannot believe the apparent level of lack of intellect expressed daily by this rabble (not exclusively one party).

Firstly: All employment rights legislation would revert to the British Government. Why, unless Labour does not ever expect to win an election would this concern them? Maybe they are frightened of actually having to properly legislate?

Secondly: To build and maintain a successful economy any government has to have the electorate on their side. The vast majority of voters are also workers so, as shown by previous generations, mess too much with the workers and they will revolt. Any post Brexit government will need a cooperative and motivated workforce.

Thirdly: Since we have been in the Common market/EU, our unions have been decimated, sick payments slashed, redundancy payments capped, zero hour contracts introduced, the gig economy has emerged, apprenticeships and in house skills training slashed and more.
Where was the EU protecting the employees? well maybe the WTD which the majority of workers hated as it restricted their ability to do overtime.

Many forget or do not know that UK employment law already exceeds EU basic requirements, which some other member states struggle to meet. The EU employment law is basically UK employment law that was adopted by the EU.

Remain MPs talk about loss of jobs post Brexit, but did not shout out loud as the thousands of light industry jobs were off-shored to Eastern Europe. British industry is now (on the whole) just assembly factories with parts (which were previously made in the UK) being shipped in from Romania, Poland etc. Is this worker protection or protection if the Proletariat?

I am mindful of 1984 (the book). Have we become so compliant since EU membership that we have lost the ability to think and make decisions for ourselves?
I get the sense that some people think everything will stop or get worse on leaving, it only will if people allow this.

I'm not sure you will make anyone less "cross" by being so flippant UG. I can think of many things I feel at the moment but "cross" isn't one of them. Enjoy what you think seem to see as your moment in the sun.

Conspiracy theorists around every corner, convincing themselves why they couldn’t possibly vote for the deal. What about the EU position on all this? I doubt Juncker would have looked so happy if what John Baron says was a possibility. Barrier is a clever negotiator. I doubt the possibility of this scenario had passed him by!

As regards concerns about workers rights (upthread) if the electorate saw the erosion of their workers rights or social protections (whatever the hell they are) and felt strongly enough about it they could see out the Tories at the next elections with another credible political party. Oh, hang on a minute.......

Snap, Wwmk2!

That's a timely post, Ug.

Because it is extremely likely that this Withdrawal Agreement will lead to no deal if it is voted for by Parliament. In this interview John Baron MP makes it clear that the prospect of no deal at the end of the transition period is why the ERG are minded to vote for it. They seem to have forgotten about their 'vassal state' objection to May's very similar deal.

They know very well (as *everyone ought to know*) that a Trade Agreement will take far longer to negotiate than the one year transition period. So the plan is, accept this WA in order to bypass the Benn Act, then crash out with no deal at the end of the transition period.

Just prolongs the agony for another year, really; it's not going to help any businesses because they still won't know what an FTA with the EU would look like and we have lots of trade negotiations to do with other countries...

Another reason I don’t like this deal and would never trust a Tory.

People's Vote UK

BREAKING: John Baron reveals the NO DEAL promise from Michael Gove & Dominic Raab that is making #Brexit extremists vote for this fake deal.

They have no intention of signing up to a free trade deal before 2020. They want the UK to crash out out with No Deal.

Isn’t it strange how many people on here are SO cross we have a deal? They didn’t want No Deal.

No pleasing some folk.

Well you could ... but ONLY if you Revoke A50!

When the Scots understand how easily Johnson is prepared to push NI closer to the RI and union, they will surely go for independence, why wouldn’t they?

Johnson took a deal that had been left on the floor - covered in piss, rejected by May and himself as injurious to the UK - added a paragraph or two that told the ERG he'd set light to H&S regulations and workers' rights, and walked back to the HoC.

'Here,' he said, 'I Neville Chamberlain Boris Johnson, have secured peace in our time a great deal. Vote for it, you morons. I despise you - prove yourselves worthy of my contempt.'

“Cat from Japan”

I see that Foster has been talking to the the loyalist paramilitaries.

Johnson is an idiot to think this will work

Not in my book!