Why are so many so scared and against Federalism?

Edit. 2nd sentence should read ....£35 million a week more than etc.

Another FACT. We have never paid £55 million a day to the EU. That would be £35 million more than the figure on the side of the red bus, a figure that was a lie, a big lie. Your lie is even bigger, quizqueen. you won't win many quizzes with duff information like that

For every £1 we paid to the EU we got back £10 in trade. I wish I got that sort of return on investments...

I'll take a look, absthame

FACT: Ford received a loan from the European Investment Bank (an EU institution) of around £150 million to relocate to Turkey at around the same time Ford had already decided to wind down its Eastleigh plant.

FACT: The EIB lent Ford £450 million to develop greener vehicles in the UK.

FACT: The EIB lent the UK approximately £6 billion in 2015 for various projects.

FACT: Microsoft has invested £1 billion into research facilities in Cambridge, but the word is that Micrsosoft is thinking of relocating to somewhere within the EU.

FACT: Japanese investors (including Hitachi and Nissan) think that the UK outside the EU will not be an attractive place to invest. Japanese investors provide about 140,000 direct jobs in the UK and thousands more in supply chains. Approximately 75% of cars made in the UK are exported to the EU. It doesn't make sense for investors to stay in the UK.

FACT: The UK is the second largest recipient of EU research and investment funds, which provide thousands of well-paid jobs in the UK.

FACT: British fishermen have belatedly realised they have shot themselves in the foot over Brexit and many will be losing their biggest export market.

absthame- Where did the EU get all their money from to fund all the things you mention? It couldn't be from the UK's own membership fees of £55 million pounds a day, could it ( for Free Trade, which doesn't sound very free to me). Best to cut out the middle man and make our own decisions.
Grandad1943 -ask the fisherman who lost their livelihood what good being the EU had done for them over the last 40+ years, and ask the Ford workers in Eastleigh, near Southampton, why they think the EU gave Ford a grant to move to Turkey ( a non EU country) and shut down their car plant with the loss of 15,000 jobs.
I'm sure the two groups would be very pleased to tell you about all the 'benefits' the EU brings.

Sorry Potteries not batteries ........ Blasted autocorrect

English nationalism is the province of the far right because for most in England their loyalty is to their region or county rather than to that area refers to as England. If you want proof ask people whose homes are in the provinces where are you from, and their response will be Cornwall, Lancashire, Yorkshire or even The Batteries rarely will their first reaction be England.

Each of these counties, regions or areas broadly have a population similar in size to that of Scotland or have a very distinctive local culture. England is not their home, their locality is.

Callistemon I have no such link, but if you contact the Welsh Language Society I am sure that they will confirm that the EEC invested in the encouragement and dissemination of the Welsh Language well before the establishment of the Welsh Assembly. They have done similar things to protect the Celtic language in areas of Scotland. This does not detract from the work of the Welsh Assembly. I remember Panorama programs looking at the issues, I think the Welsh initiative were about 35years ago or so.

The UK does not have left wing Marxist policies, nor does any other European country. All dictatorships of whatever political persuasion try to curtail free speech.

I think the problem may be the misuse of the use of the word pride Maizie, Jane. My perception is it that it much misused.

It would be nice to ‘reclaim’ the flag of St George from the awful far right groups.My own village has started ( a few years ago) by flying it alongside the union flag on high days and holidays.

You either can’t understand Welsh pride or Scottish pride either then ( not just English.)
I see it as more affection for the culture and traditions than actual pride.

April Have I got this right? You want laws repealed that make it illegal to spew forth anti-Semitic, islamophobic, homophobic bile on social media, in the newspapers, and on street corners?

Yes. I believe in the right to free speech. That means for everyone, regardless of what they say and whether I agree or not.

You really think that sort of thing is ok?

I do. I think the alternative is to censor speech. Which is the road we are on now.
This has two outcomes.
a) it leads to people becoming angry and frustrated. That also means that many may think things they are not allowed to say - you can censor spoken words but not thought .....

b) The ability of the powerful to control fact and truth. Left wing propaganda has always sought to censor speech in order to stop thought. However, to do that you also have to control the medium through which people learn their thoughts - education and and media. By not allowing alternatives, you create a compliant majority who are unable to make their own judgement.

You don’t think allowing it would be a dangerous step along the road to fascism?

No, I think it would be the opposite. Allied to what I said above about propaganda and curtailing of speech. You have to hear the worst in order to compare it to the good. If the worst is not allowed to be spoken you have no means of making a judgement.

One of the reasons left wing Marxist policies try to curtail free speech is so that there can be no way of comparing and finding truth from their lies.

Thanks Alexa and it could well be that you are right, but I think it will take another generation or maybe two for people to feel totally comfortable with federalism. Abolition of slavery, Innoculation against Smallpox, Battle of Britain, Railways, Concorde, David Attenborough, just to name a few things to be proud of?!

Maizie, Janeainsworth it's something I don't understand either.

Not brainwashed but subjective and a good thing too. How else could we compare ideas and make any progress if not by reason of our having different ideas from each other?

I'm just wondering if I was brainwashed somewhere along the line
I’m sure we all are, to some extent Maisie. Even if we think we’re reading a broad spectrum of opinion, we still tend to revert to the sort of journalism and views that we feel innately comfortable with.
Feel free to disagree

Jaberwock a very good explanation. However it might be that European countries are becoming less and less ethnic entities as the economic community flourishes. Additionally communication of ideas and lifestyles is so powerful that federalism seems more and more possible.

Ethnicity can turn into nationalism in the hands of unscrupulous politicians, and the extreme right is on the move and will not stop at populist sentimentality.

Thanks, Janeainsworth, I'm glad you understand.

I was expecting to be flamed

I voted against the Northern Assembly because I thought it didn't give us enough power...

Mind you, since I discovered that the Abominable Cummings organised the campaign against the Northern Assembly I'm just wondering if I was brainwashed somewhere along the line...

I'm never too sure what the English have to be proud of that makes us in any way exceptional
Why should anyone be proud, just because they were born in a certain place? Even if the country has some glorious aspect of its past, it’s nothing to do with them, is it?

Lemon that I think it would reinforce the differences, divide the North and South even more, set the West against the East etc
I agree. When John Prescott had the idea of a Northern Assembly, it was defeated in the referendum we had. People were far too sensible. And as the woman from
Middlesbrough said when interviewed in Radio 4, “well, we don’t want to be ruled by them up there in Newcastle!” ?
Tribalism rules I’m afraid!

I'm never too sure what the English have to be proud of that makes us in any way exceptional.

I hope any plans that were being considered for a type of federalism in the UK have been shelved, England doesn’t need to be carved up.What needs to be supported though, is that a sense of English pride being restored, Welsh, Scottish and NI pride in their own countries is taken for granted, but sadly any hint of pride in English culture and achievements are considered as something to be hidden away.
I don’t think the likes of far right groups would exist to wave the flag of St George, if people in England had been allowed to feel the same sense of pride in our country and traditions as the other countries within the UK.
Having said that, the reason I don’t want our small country carved up into federal regions, is that I think it would reinforce the differences, divide the North and South even more, set the West against the East etc.We are English and appreciate the differences between counties and regions and
Even enjoy the differences, but are all part of the same small country.

abstamthe
Could you post a link, please, to the way in which the EU has enabled the Welsh language to be promoted?

This is a project of the devolved Welsh Assembly - are you saying this was funded by the EU?

Wales voted to leave Gracesgran - has that view changed significantly since the referendum.

I did understand that plans were in the pipeline at one time for a type of federalism with the UK being divided into regions.