Boris getting tough with EU

But surely under article 50 that the majority of our MP's signed up for, we are perfectly within our rights to leave the EU, with or without a deal?! Why is this now being treated like a criminal offense that needs punishment and ostracism of major severity?! What exactly have we done to deserve the wrath and condemnation of the EU who presumably sanctioned article 50 in the first place!

I think no matter what people voted, events happening now are way out of our hands. For myself, I never envisaged that Mr Johnson would become Prime Minister.

It is an utter tragedy that the Labour Party ended up with Corbyn, when there are so many more able Labour MPs - not just Starmer, but Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, even Ed Milliband would have done a better job.

For all his socialist agenda, it's ironic that Attlee was never considered to be a firebrand socialist. During the national government, he was the "little man" who ran around getting things done. It wasn't even clear that he would be PM until Labour won the 1945 election. He was an administrator, who managed some talented politicians with a clear vision.

I wonder if the polls would be different if somebody like Starmer were Labour leader. He's no firebrand for sure, but he's been reasonably competent and has been loyal to a leader he probably doesn't agree with. He's not tainted by having been a Blair supporter and AFAIK hasn't ever done anything which would make tabloid headlines.

(Just thinking aloud.)

I feel so sad that I can so easily accept there are people who put out propaganda such as we saw yesterday. To be honest I feel constantly sad about how my nation is behaving.

"He who seduces, inveigles, lies to and cheats the nation has won millions of adherents and makes them into fanatical fighters for his heresies, which are nothing other than a conglomerate of ideas stolen from other fanatics. Nothing he brought forth has grown on its own dung pile."

The man who wrote this could not speak out against a corrupt leader at the time. Why do people support the same sort of man yet again when they could speak out?

Ok UG your 'expedient' is my 'crass'.
Says it all really - ditch all principles to achieve your ends and to hell with any vestige of morality!

Urmstongran - as said above, do you have any idea where those new doors go to?

Doors to No Deal with the EU, No Deal with the USA

doors into the Abyss and a divided country that won't heal. Before you rush through any doors, you should check what is on the other side.

When you come up with this kind of stuff- I have to wonder. Who are you, what is you stake in this- are you massively and blindly optimistic, or ?????? Signing off before it is too late.

I suppose when people voted to remain, many had a vague idea they would like to maintain the status quo, those who voted to leave thought it better to be out of something they perceived as harmful.

People had no clear information from either side and I suppose voted on a whim.

Nobody could ever in a million years predict this awful situation. Personally I could see the far right on the up and indeed it is gaining power and acceptance.

I notice that Leavers are completely silent about the poster WwMk2 reproduced on this thread yesterday( 08-Oct-19 19:33:37)

Do we take it that this means they approve of it?

New doors don't always mean better Urm - and in this case there's nothing to cheer about behind the Brexit door (unless you're of the Kraut hating persuasion).

On the other hand Maw -

In the immortal words of Stan Laurel “And a fine mess you (he) got us into”

When the majority voted to leave the EU, I think they assumed there would be no deal anyway.

Oh, for heavens sake, Ug, stop revising history. None of the Leave campaigners said anything at all about 'no deal'. if I could be bothered I could post a whole string of stuff quoting Leave campaigners telling how we were going to get the easiest deal ever, etc etc.

Do you really think that people would have been so keen to vote Leave if they'd been told that we weren't going to get a deal at all and just what that would mean?

No, not immoral, nor crass mcem I’d say expedient behaviour after all the brickbats thrown at him during the last few weeks.

Boris will walk any general election.

UG I 'd really like to know how you can accept his totally immoral and crass behaviour as appropriate for the 'leader' of civilised state - or are we all expected to expect this level of ignorant and self-serving behaviour to become the norm?

How could they assume there would be NO Deal, when they were promised by all we would get a Deal, a great Deal, an easy Deal- or we would be like Norway and Switzerland, rich and happy ... or that no-one in their right mind would even consider leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union, and on, and on, and some more ...

janipat I was going to make the effort to do the same link.

I very rarely join in any discussions re Brexit as I have banged my head in despair so many times that it is wearing the bone down now. This is just one example of why those in power in the UK worry me just as much as environmental disasters right now - the future is bleak!

When the majority voted to leave the EU, I think they assumed there would be no deal anyway.

Consistently random then.

What have I said that’s random? I think I’m quite consistent.
?

Wind Up Merchant

What’s a WUM?

Sometimes I think UG is a WUM - can she really mean the often random things she says?!

Well you may be right urmstongran. Anyone who supporta a party who came up with the poster and slogan posted by Wwm2 - should be ashamed of themselves.

And yes, when the consequences hits us all, and the most vulnerable first- I will blame you, all of you- who supported this selfish charlatan, his fascist friends and the ERG and related multi billionaires who will profit from it all.

A Hero you say ? Oh my ...it says so much about you for sure.

Not only will we have no EU Deal with all our nearest neighbours, but we will be ostracised and yes, 'punished' - because it will cost them a lot, and has done for a long time- and they will be angry. Can I blame them - no, not at all. They will get closer and tighter, and will prioritise each other. it is dangerous too.

Our borders will no longer be protected by them ... see what happens then.

And there will be No Deal from the USA either- and we will have to beg for crumbs in our weakness and shame.

BE careful what you wish for - you will have to live with it - and all the others too, who never voted for this and don't want it. They will blame you too.

Whitewave that is appalling
I too heard about the drugs “bust” on tonight’s news and how under post-Brexit conditions, such cooperation with other police agencies would no longer be possible.
One giant step for (UK) mankind- backwards