Channel 4 menopause policy

@growstuff no-one is employed for life.

Many are lucky to land zero-hour jobs with no security, no protection and no prospects.

Employers will do what they can get away with. They'll pay as little as they can, knowing that the taxpayer will pick up the slack via tax credits.

As for smaller employers: it's often difficult enough for them to keep going at all, never mind reasonable adjustments for menopausal workers.

And, I'm sorry, but some of the issues that have been mentioned sound more like capacity issues to me.

For example, how do you make reasonable adjustments for a menopausal, flooding, sweaty lecturer? That's what lecturing is about -standing in front of a class, thinking on your feet. It's hard. If you're not up to it, don't do it!

Maybe one of the reasons women "of a certain age" are seen as not performing well is because they're trying to cover up the fact that they're really not feeling well

If you are ill you should not be working. If its natural causes, then maybe that would be a good reason to be retired? Shape up or ship out as my employer would say.

oldgimmer

Do you mean a capability issue?

What exactly do you expect a woman to do? What about a woman who is the sole breadwinner? Is she supposed to give up a whole career?

Menopause doesn't last forever and women would be perfectly capable of returning to their previous responsibility, if it weren't for the blot on their CV caused by menopausal symptoms.

It might not be possible to make reasonable adjustments for a teacher or lecturer, but a reasonable employer might consider a change of role to one where occasional breaks might be possible. Unfortunately, some narrow minded employers do consider it a capability issue.

Good grief! You really have had contact with some ghastly human beings!

Menopause is not an illness any more than pregnancy or a disability is. It's a temporary condition, which can be worked round by intelligent people.

Let's hear it for Chanel 4 championing the women ( sarcastic emoji)
They plan to equal out their 28.6% pay gap by 2023
Whoopee doo for them.

There is a valid reason for this ( more sarcasm ?) 2/3 of the top jobs are taken for men ?

I gave up my career as a Lecturer when I was expecting DD. It was, quite simply, beyond me. I did not expect my employer to "work around me" as I was employed to do a job, I was paid to do a job, and I simply could not anymore.

I suppose I could have gone on the sick until mat leave, but I did not want to do that as it would place my colleagues under strain and it would be difficult organisationally.

I made a choice. Equally, I made a choice not to work when I was going through the meno as I knew I would find things difficult. Also, I did not want to take my issues to work as I didn't see why my issues should be my employer's problem.

People have choices. Sometimes they're not easy to make but there you go.

Aprilrose your use of 'female' as a noun says a lot about your attitude to other women.

The workplace has generally been designed around a society where men are breadwinners and women are dependent on them and stay at home with the children.

Is this the way you think it should stay, or do you think that women should be 'allowed' in? As for your statement about your employer 'treating men and women equally', if you are working in a position of authority, surely you know the difference between 'equally' and 'fairly'?

oldgimmer1
You made a choice, that is your right. A choice, by definition, is something that can also be decided against. What you did was right for you, so it's lucky that you were in a position to make it.

As I am sure you know, however, not everyone is so fortunate, which is why using one's own experience as a yardstick is seldom very helpful in a discussion such as this.

Menopause is not an illness any more than pregnancy or a disability is. It's a temporary condition, which can be worked round by intelligent people

Temporary? In some cases I have heard of the menopause lasting seven years or more. In other cases more than fifteen years. Thats hardly temporary. Hardly easy to be worked around. My boss once got a strop on when I was put off sick for six weeks with pneumonia ( as a complication of influenza). Two of those weeks were Christmas to boot and I had booked in as holiday for that time.

I went back to work without a clear X ray as was supposed to be the case , in order to keep my job and because my colleagues couldn't keep up with the additional workload on them as a result of me being unwell. Now that was temporary.

Seven years or more is rather a long term thing .

Doodledog, I know all about the pressures. I am the main breadwinner in my family. I have to leave my child so that I can earn the money to keep us. I am also menopausal and I suffer considerably with multiple issues, so I know those problems too. But I also know in the big wide real world of work employers do not and will not make such allowances. You take a job, you do it. It is about equality, not about fairness.

But they will if they have to. At one time, paid holiday was a luxury, sick pay was a pipe dream, and children went down mines and up chimneys.

Pressure from reformers, Trade Unions and political will has changed all that. The same can, and should IMO, be true of reasonable adjustments for menopausal women.

doodle I made that choice because I had to. Not making the choice could well have meant a dead child. As it was, DD was born very prematurely at 29 weeks and I was glad I made the decision. No job is worth losing your only chance at motherhood for.

My employer was a well-established educational provider with funding cut to the bone, with trade union recognition and all the (supposed) trimmings.

I'm wondering whether some of you live in the real world.

I am sorry to hear that, oldgimmer1; but I don't agree that that should be the baseline for women's employment.

I do live in the real world. If I knew of another, I would emigrate.

FWIW, my career was also in education, and I did 'put up and shut up', as I said above. I don't see that as good reason for the next generation to do the same, though, which is where I think our points of view differ.

Some of you on here seem to be getting very agitated about a policy which employers can choose to have or not have. It’s not enshrined in law and women going through the menopause will be able to access whatever policy their employers feel is appropriate to introduce and it’s simply about making reasonable adjustments.

As was said to me on the old WASPI thread elsewhere. Women asked for equality. they should not complain when they get it.

The same applies here. We cannot have once set of rules in one instance and change them in another.

Apologies for the awful grammar, DS2 is chattering away

What rules? You seem to be getting your legislation and policies confused.

rules of logic SirChenjin

The menopause can be an extremely difficult and upsetting time for some women. I was recently reading of a highly successful and competent businesswoman who suffered a range of distressing symptoms, including anxiety, extreme forgetfulness and a complete loss of confidence, whilst going through the menopause. I also have a friend who is suffering similar symptoms.

I think women who have experienced the same problems but who, because they had no help at the time, feel that others should struggle through without assistance are just selfish. What a horrible attitude where "I'm all right Jack" or "I had to suffer, so you should too" is the name of the game.

I was fortunate in not having hot flushes or heavy periods whilst going through the menopause but I do recognise that for some women it is a very unpleasant and challenging time, and some consideration should be made for that.

Some people may take advantage if adjustments are made but we really shouldn't deny progressive social and employment policies because of a few malingerers. I believe the majority of people play fair and are more likely to do their best if they are valued and treated with trust and respect.

Your logic is conflating rules, legislation and policies april

Excellent post Eloethan

I second that. Excellent post Eloethan. Women (actually all people) give more if they're treated with understanding and respect.

Yes, and in an atmosphere in which everyone is treated as a potential malingerer, they are less likely to be open about problems that could be dealt with easily by a decent employer.

Oh definitely. The evidence shows very clearly that happy staff are more productive.

growstuff

really appreciate your post.
have experienced randon flooding and sleep disturbances myself so I am glad that some employers are grappling with it.

Thanks to woman's hour I would say. Wonderful coverage as usual .
all best
painting