Boris Johnson and his lies

It sounded remarkably as though you are one of those people...

Through the back door....I meant!

Remember the outcry in this country when people from Asia, particularly those of Pakistani origin, were able to marry people from their home country and bring them in?

I personally had no problem with that, and knew several families who did this. Neither have I any issues with ‘her’ niece and her Turkish husband.

But I’m suggesting the law was changed to close that immigration through the back food loophole. And I’m suggesting that there are some who might agree that was a ‘good’ thing.

Why shouldn't she?

Why should your niece have an automatic right to marry a foreign national and bring him to live in this country newnanny?

Newnanny, as others have said it is very difficult and expensive now to get a husband or wife into the U.K., even from western countries like US and Australia. The rules probably will change for migrants after Brexit and those will special skills will be allowed in, just how high the salary level will be is uncertain.
I don’t think that affects spouses coming to UK, the child probably has got the right to residency has he/she got a British passport if not why not.

The New York Times gives a more accurate assessment of Johnson than our pro-brexit media

www.nytimes.com/2019/10/21/world/europe/brexit-newspapers-boris-Johnson.html

But once again Brexit was sold to the public on a promise that will probably not be kept- we'll stop EU citizens but make it easier for others. There has been a consistent movement to make it more difficult for anyone to bring spouses from any country into the UK in recent years.

I agree Nonnie and am sorry. I was interested in finding out how the system works because I don't really see that Brexit will make any difference. But what do I know? I'm pretty sure the Home Office doesn't know either.

I think we are all rather getting off the point new & grow (yes I include me) which is that being in the EU or not, in this case, will make no difference.

Newnanny can you respond to my other points please?

Her husband has not overstayed as he has never been out of Turkey.

MY niece is a nurse but not working at the moment as child is not school aged and in Turkey nursery childcare is not readily available as it is in UK and she lives in rural location.

I'm no expert on this, but I agree with you Nonnie. If the niece is a British citizen, it doesn't matter what her job is because she has the right to be here. The important thing is that she earns over the threshold to "sponsor" her husband, which I would have thought a qualified nurse does. If the child has dual nationality, she/he will probably have the right to be here too.

I read about a case recently where the husband wasn't given a visa because he'd overstayed a previous visa (or something like that - I can't remember exactly). Presumably that isn't the case here.

Maybe the wife needs to have a job in the UK first. I agree, by the way. Brexit probably won't make any difference at all. I heard, anecdotally, that many people with relatives in the Indian subcontinent voted Brexit because they were led to believe it would be easier for their relatives to come to the UK. If they have high-level science, medicine or IT skills, they can already come to the UK and Brexit won't change anything.

growstuff yes you are right that is why I suggested getting a visa first. That is what my friend did and is now a valued member of UK society paying far more into the system than they get out. However newnanny said his wife is a nurse so she would be earning more than that and if he is in such a high position he would qualify under the earnings rule. Imo it is a red herring.

I think (but could be wrong) that new rules were introduced last year. Most people need a job with a salary of 30k. If a non-EU spouse comes with a UK wife and child, the spouse needs to be earning about £22.4k. The only exception is for people on the list of shortage occupations and entrepreneurs.

newnanny I hope it all works out, but I must admit I wouldn't be very hopeful. Just because fewer EU citizens will come to the UK doesn't mean that there will be more places for non-EU citizens. The aim is to reduce the overall total.

Nonnie The person you know could have qualified because he(?) had already been working in the UK for some time.

I'm surprised that the Home Office said anything of the sort too. Firstly, I wouldn't have thought it would be very professional to give such advice and secondly, I doubt very much if the Home Office knows how any new system would work.

newnanny then it must be his particular circumstances because the person I know very well (went to the citizenship ceremony) had no difficulty at all and wasn't married to a Brit. Came here simply for a job for which very well qualified. Not from EU, not even from Europe. It surprises me that someone from the Home Office has said that because I have a friend who is in a very senior position in the HO and says they never give such 'advice'.

I think the earnings of my friend was about £18k at the time.

Whether it's 12 billion or 17 billion, it's actually a drop in the ocean in the context of total GDP, especially as the UK gains far more from businesses which have relocated to the UK and generate work, etc and the profitable services which the UK provides.

If a billion pounds every month does not get sent to EU then it can be used to fund services in the UK. At the moment it is 12 billion but next year it would have been 17 billion.

Can you tell me where you got these figures from, newnanny?

Forget that! I just checked and your niece would need an income of £22,400pa. I assume she doesn't.

Why can't he apply for a family visa, assuming your niece is British?

Nonnie he has applied and been refused entry as he was told he does not originate from an EU country and the rules for residency from non EU countries are far stricter in terms of having to earn so much more and extra money too for child. The Home Office have told them after we leave the EU they their application will be far stronger as then all people will be judged upon merit and skills and not country of origin. Her parents and grand parents are worried sick about her living in Turkey as it is not safe, especially at the moment and the child does not cope with heat well as asthmatic. Child is almost 4 and my niece wants him to live and go to school in UK.

Thank you newnanny for responding, it is refreshing.

My answers to you:

1 We don't yet know what the points system will be but I hope you are right. However, I think he could already come and live in the UK if he first applied for a visa and then citizenship. The reason I say this is that I have a family member who did just that.

2 Unfortunately it is not that simple. As I'm sure you know the £ has dropped by 20% as a direct result of the vote in 2016 which has made many things more expensive and the projected loss of GDP far outweighs any savings from not paying the EU. On one of the posts someone has said that for every £2 we pay into the EU we get back £10 in value as a member.

3 I hope you are right but does this outweigh all the benefits we have of being in the EU? We lose our EU security membership which is surely far more valuable?

It is good to find a leaver who can debate without insult.

@Nonnie why do leave voters need 3 reasons?

1. My niece who is married to a Turkish man will be more likely to be allowed to reside in the UK with her husband and child. At the moment he can't because he is not EU citizen. He speaks perfect English and is a manger of a very large supermarket. My niece is a nurse. We have a shortage of nurses in UK and they would like to live here but can't. Under a points based system they most likely would be able to according to advise she has been given by Home Office as after we leave EU a points system will operate looking at skills you have as opposed to country where you came from.

2. If a billion pounds every month does not get sent to EU then it can be used to fund services in the UK. At the moment it is 12 billion but next year it would have been 17 billion. Social care, NHS and education could all do with a cash boost. If we stayed in EU then all taxpayers including my family would have to pay more for services.

3. After we leave EU any EU person wanting to live in UK will be vetted to see if they have committed serious crime. At the moment this does not happen because of free movement laws. My family would be safer if this vetting took place.

These are my 3 reasons that affect my family but there are other reasons which affect democracy and fairness.

You have just said what I was thinking, Maw