For brexiters only please.

The general run of the thread seems to be that leavers find it very hard to explain the benefits of leaving the EU, they just don’t want to be told what to do by foreigners, or even don’t like foreigners. The leavers I know personally have the same difficulty defining why. Regardless of how we voted it’s now likely we will break away soon so whatever our preferences we will have to live with it.

Whatever the agreement there will be a transition thus avoiding a chaotic no deal, if anyone thinks we will not be influenced by foreigners think again. For the next few years trade deals will be hammered out with many countries some we will loose some we will gain.

Good morning everyone and welcome to you Lady Muck!

When you think about it, a thread for Leavers ought to be a happy one as hopefully we are about to exit the EU after all. A thread for Remainers by the same score would be bitter as they are not happy about Brexit.

Maybe that’s why this one, set up by aprilrose was a nice idea (for us Leavers). It’s such a nice change of tempo (or could be!).

No of course I’m not going to report you MaizieD I’m not that precious. I will go back to the other thread later and debate further but I just didn’t want to debate on here as that would negate the positivity intended for this thread.
?

I have been following this thread - there are posts I have agreed with, disagreed with, sympathised with, been repelled by. But your post, Rgirl, is the first one which has moved me to contribute.

My heart goes out to you and your family, Rgirl, and to others who have suffered as you have. I cannot imagine how demoralising and hurtful it can be to have to endure such abuse as part of your daily life.

I do not want to make political capital out of Rgirl's post, although I realise that anything I say will be interpreted as that. However, we do all need to consider the choices we make with respect to the extent we might inadvertently support policies and politicians and tolerate behaviours whose primary aims, which may in themselves be benign, but which could exacerbate or encourage or allow racist and other negative tendencies in society as collateral damage.

Rgirl what a thought provoking post. Not the description of the racism you and your DD have experienced of course, but because your thoughts have brought a badly needed sense of perspective to the level of debate on these pages.

I agree with your DD about the impact on young people. I also fear for the loss of opportunities which will be denied them for studying/working in Europe.

As leaving the EU has already had a great impact on my family who live in the EU; on my job which I still do part time, and on my DD's career, I'm not looking forward to leaving and we won't be popping corks or having sparklers, (with respect to the OP). It will be a very sad day for me and my family I'm afraid.

Hello, believe it or not, I have just this minute joined the site because I want to add my support to this thread. I've been reading the posts on Gransnet for some months now and assumed that the majority on here were Remainers and there was no point my joining in with any discussions.

aprilrose, don't waste your time trying to reason with Remainers. They think we are all half-wits.

I am a remainer but now happy for Brexit to be over. My daughter on the other hand is horrified at the behaviour of some brexiters. They have used it to incite racism towards her at so many opportunities shouting things like we cant wait to get our country back, kick you foreigners out Shocking behaviour. So you can imagine at 21 studying at uni and working as many hours as she can. it has be daunting travelling.

A brief background. My dad came to this country in 1960 when he was invited to work here because the labour force had a shortage. He and my mum quickly realised it was the dirty jobs that nobody else wanted to do. I was born 6 years later and if I'm honest suffered racism from a very young age although young I still remember when we joined the eu and with the eu came equality something Britain lacked prior to joining. This includes rights for women which to date is still not enforced correctly.

I for one have seen the over burdened NHS and school system from my childrens perspective and from my sisters who are teachers and nurses. I am not against brexit but my biggest fears are for my children who have already experienced indirect abuse since the referendum. if it's like this now what's it going to be like when we do leave?

It doesn't bother me be bit to have a post devoted to either leavers or remainers. Why should it? However, if you look back to the beginning you can see the problem, always the same person aiming to bring anything down if it's not their way. I think a lot of remainers have been changed to leave bcause they never knew the extent the remainers would stoop to get the note overturned, never mind the will of the majority. I hope we leave now no deal, the country cannot live in this limbo anymore. Had the vote been remain you would never have seen the dreadful consequences of a thwarted minority, doesn't matter by how many.

Gab54 there you go again policing grammar and spelling, just who do you think you are/

I agree with crystaltipps, when it all goes pear shaped after Brexit I don't think we will have much to smile about. No trade deals,tariffs on goods, lack of some medications, lots of other issues, problems in Northern Ireland , Scotland asking for independence again, just a few things that are going to happen. Sorry it's too early for me to list them all. So, no, I don't see much to be happy about .

My list definitely the result of Brexit.

Well said Aprilrose. Lets hope this stops this nastiness

I think for the source of the vitriol , you look through the posts and see where it is coming from for yourself, I am not going to comment on that.

The problem is that a decision was made. The decision of the people was Leave. In a democracy that should have been carried forward, whether the result was by one vote or by several million. That decision has not been carried through and it has left a lot of people angry and bitter.

Unfortunately some fail to see this. I have no objection to people campaigning for their cause but they should not seek to undermine a democratic decision. That is a problem in Britain both at government level and amongst some of a different view to my own here.

Whatever happens, I do not think there will be any healing or coming together until the democratic decision is seen to be done. Trying to undermine it is a big problem. I do not think there can be forgiveness or healing until the other side see the damage they are doing. But that is an aside.

I do not want to be negative but if Brexit is not done, I think you will see upheaval in this country and the next election will be a minefield of bitterness and anger , which is yet to vent I think. You can either take the lid off and do Brexit or wait for the explosion. I hope we do not have the latter.

We need to move forward. How did we get here? Well, there is a "First" in all of this. It is the first time a government in this country has gone against its people. Its the first time the losers have refused to accept democracy. Its the first time we have seen lies and deceit and selfish will above the good of the majority. Its because the losers do not see themselves as defeated. They cannot accept the result. Thats how we got to thins I think.

There is nothing wrong in fighting on for what you want. But you do not try to stop what has been decided. That is a first .

But I want to be positive. I am not re running old arguments. I have to go to work now. Its another day, lets hope it is a positive one.

I had to re read Aprilrose original post. How did a post descend to this. Three years of opinions back and forth and still all this vitriol. Whatever happens or does not happen on the 31st will not be changed by us being hateful to each other. It is out of our hands and we all have to accept whatever happens.

But leavers on this thread didn't "open up about hopes and aspirations" did they?

I really do not think there has been much of a chance yet. However, there is another thread now for remain minded people to express their feelings, so this should be a positive place.

I do have hope, however, I keep mine a little lidded until I see we have decidedly left. As I have pointed out above, many of the things being blamed now on Brexit have been going on for forty five years whilst we have been in the EU, so hardly a Brexit issue.

I do have hope . I want to see a better future for my child . She came to me rather late in life and is precious . I do not want to see the EU ruin her life as it has blighted mine. Thats a big reason for voting leave with me.

I have hindsight. I have seen what has happened. We cannot go back. I don't want to go back. I want to go forward to a better world.

I know my child is the future and how I educate her is important. I have to take care of today, for her to have a tomorrow. I will not be educating her to love the EU and wrap herself in a blue logo that is for sure. One thing I hope will come quickly Brexit is done is that we can be rid of all the silly crying and wrapping in flags of young people looking for some sort of religion and finding it in the EU cause. Crying on the streets dressed up in costumes is not a good look. It reminds me of football rowdiness, it takes away the little bit of sense people have. No doubt the youngsters will move on. They have other causes already.

So, another day down and only a few - hopefully - left to Halloween.

crystaltips, I don't think any of those things are new or because of Brexit. They have been going on for a very long time - although politicians lying on such a scale seems relatively new.

The rest have been happening since the 1970's and I will remind you, we have been in the EU all that time and we are not out yet.

The international derision is an interesting one. I have read a lot of papers from around the world and spoken to many people , especially in the USA and Australia. I have not found anyone who is derisive of Britain. Many are incredulous that we have a government which is now tantamount to a dictatorship and one that is undermining democracy. Important as they see us as a founder of democracy. Many wonder how easily it could happen to them and I think may be taking lessons in how to prevent it.

The media here do not present a full picture. Indeed they do not provide any picture at all.

I put this on another thread but maybe more relevant here - but apart from the crashed £, price rises, the normalisation of lying politicians, the worsening trade gap, the increase in hate crime, the splintering of families, the loss of high income jobs, the threat to peace in Ireland, the shortage of farm workers, the increased alienation of Scotland, the weakening of our science base, the threats to the financial sector and the movement of companies to EU countries, the loss of doctors and nurses who are leaving in droves, soaring debt, £69bn bill, loss of influence in the world and international derision, loss of health cover in 27 countries, weakened security, loss of protective legislation, massive distraction from important issues like climate change- Brexit has been great so far hasn’t it?

Lots of leave supporters not happy with Johnson’s deal which is basically the same as May’s one with a bit of wording changed “backstop” becomes “ alternative customs arrangements” and the wool is pulled over the desperate deluded eyes. Brexit is going so well isn’t it, this thread just amounts to rubbishing the EU with repeating all the old myths and claiming how “we” are all going to be rolling in clover when our esteemed politicians and useless government will bestow us all with untold riches ( or may be they’ll just cut taxes for all their chums).

One of my best friends for many many years who is Irish and lived close to the Falls Road where some of worst violence occurred when growing up, told me that both sides in Ireland try to point score from the other side. She is Catholic but readily admits she knew of gangs of Catholics who used to hit Protestants they caught with pieces of wood with nails hammered through them. Protestants did similar barbaric things to Catholics too according to her. She lives in UK now but travels back several times each year to see her family who still live there and she says things are better in Ireland but a lot of the old animosities still remain and things like Orange marches stirs it all up each year.

Labiak
I don’t think there is any appetite amongst the majority Irish population to restart fisticuffs. If I were Irish I would feel a little offended to think that rest of UK thought that way.
However if they really wanted to restart trouble being in or out of EU would not stop them. Look at recent issues in Spain and France.

I'm forever a Brexiteer. I never wanted to join the Common Market in the first place in 1973 when Heath took us in by stealth, and I voted out in Wilson's referendum of 1975. I'm disappointed with Boris as his new deal is just a rehash of May's and is really just BRINO, as the EU would still have a lot of control over us. I would prefer to leave with NO DEAL. It would be a rocky road at first, I don't doubt, but for the long term it would be for the best as the UK could make all its own decisions in all areas. I am sick to death of Remainers trying to overturn a democratic vote, saying I must be stupid and that the referendum was unlawful.

Labaik, Trimble the author of the GDA has clearly stated that Boris deal will not break GFA or that troubles should start up again. Checks are not in Ireland.

The rest of UK should not be held hostage in EU just because people in Ireland want to blow each other up.

Remaining in the EU reduces the risk of 'the troubles' staring up again with the added risk of the IRA targeting Britain. I can't believe that anyone wants to go back to those terrible times.

But that seems to be as a result of BSE which, I think, originated in this country and was passed on by us to Europe [?]. Or have I misread it?

Joel I honestly think that there is no clear concise reason for leaving or remaining that would now convince someone holding the opposite view of the error of their ways. It seems to me that the situation is way beyond this. Basically I believe we are just well and truly f***ed. GN demonstrates this just as well as everywhere else.

Eloethan
blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/teabags-banned-from-being-recycled/