Will the fat lady sing?

Bercow to rule at 2.30pm

I saw DUP on Sky news saying they will not be voting for a customs union about an hour ago.

When we had referendum in 1975 there was no confirmatory vote then government just did what country mandated it to do.

In 2011 when Scotland voted to remain in EU there was no confirmatory vote then.

It seems some people, mostly MP's, do not like result of 2016 referendum and throw toys out of pram by demanding a second vote, third vote until they win.

I appreciate your OP whitewavemark2 because in truth I am now lost with the goings on.
I thought I could mostly follow political developments but not this hard core!

Keep posting.

EllanVannin as far as I can see in his biography page KS was never a cop. I completely disagree with you anyway, I thought his performance in HoC on Saturday was very impressive, erudite and articulate, I'd like to see him as LP leader.

Starmer is a lawyer like many MPs as such he is much more predictable than an idealist might be, wether he rises to be leader is uncertain, does he appeal to a majority of party members?. He’s smart and highly likely to be part of any future Labour administration.

Indeed, there is a lot to be argued over and some parts we will like, some we won’t, some agreements with farm trade will be very quick, the starting point is the tariffs we have now, many won’t change for a while.

What the EU will not allow, is us buying cheaper goods from elsewhere and then re export them to the EU. A good example is New Zealand lamb we import an agreed fixed quota at present and at the same time export 40% of our lamb to the EU, they will want to be sure we are not cheating on that agreement.
My guess is that will continue for a year or two, but any illusion that we can decide what we can import and export without reference to any third country is wrong.

The Johnson unsigned letter made me think of the rogue employer who had been pocketing my tax & NI payments all the time he employed me (not just me, either) and providing fraudulent wage slips. You could get away with that in the 70s. When I left I didn't have cash in my wage packet. It was an unsigned cheque and shortly afterwards he disappeared like a thief in the night.

On a lighter note, many wonderful opera singers are now slim

Yup, I was at the opera this weekend and the only fat singer was a man (boy, was he fat! Fabulous voice, though)

Lots of good posts here. I think a large part of the problem is that the other parties have to second guess what BJ is up to because no one can trust him.

On a lighter note, many wonderful opera singers are now slim

Starmer was a lawyer as far as I know.

Nothing can be done until the WA is passed so the sooner the better.
Of course there will be years of negotiating trade deals and fine tuning agreements and so on, but the fact is we will then be out of the EU. Very few people expect it to be done and dusted completely by the end of this month.

Who's an ex cop?

I don't know but I can see this spilling over into next year.

Can't stand Starmer, his face gets on my nerves ! Ex-cop.

Once (if) the WA gets passed, we then start with the real negotiations.

That should be fun

maizie

Corruption everywhere you look.

We still have the Acuri case. They are now looking at her political connections in the USA, and her agenda.

Starmer and the DUP, strange bedfellows,

That's politics, for you, David.

Talking of strange bedfellows, how about the involvement of Labour MPs, Caroline Flint, Stephen Kinnock & Kate Hooey, in a rightwing 'think tank' that promotes deregulation and the hardest of all Brexits? Prosperity Commission. Populated by members of the ERG and the DUP. Strange bedfellows indeed.

Have a look at this thread:

twitter.com/cirian75/status/1185962604868636674

But, David, we can't "just get on with our lives". This situation will continue until at least the end of 2020, when we'll go through the whole thing again. Then we have years of negotiating any kind of agreements, many of which will cause squabbles. People who think this so-called "deal" will clear the air are deluded.

The WAB is being published today. Remember the government could have published much sooner but chose not to, instead have left too little time (they hope) for it be scrutinised properly.

Raphael Hogarth thinks there are 7 flash points.

Timetabling
2nd referendum
CU
Conditions for paying the divorce bill
EU law and ECJ
Who decides what happens at the end of transition.
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/seven-flashpoints-withdrawal-agreement-bill

Whitwave You know as well as I do that legitimacy has no meaning in the current climate.

I’m sure the OP is correct and we will leave when parliament is satisfied, they don’t trust the PM and his cronies one inch. A majority of MPs now want a deal done and that’s what will happen.
Then we can get on with our lives and make the best of it, at least there will be a transition to avoid chaos

I hope our MPs step up to the mark and remember their duty to do the best for the country and put its interests first, and not their party or own career interests.

maize I know, but I think it would be seen as far more legitimate if the voter did sign it off one way or the other.

Without a vote the deal will, if it goes through, be passed by a government that has neither a majority government, with a leader who has no mandate from the voter and some of whom are being looked at for potential criminal charges, and corruption at the highest level.

Starmer and the DUP, strange bedfellows, maybe he will offer more in bribes than the Tories, they wont be agreeing for long though.

The electorate will never accept this without a confirmatory vote.

Goodness you're optimistic, WwMk2.

If there is to be another referendum it should be in two parts

First part. Leave the EU
Remain in the EU

Second part Leave with Boris Johnsons Deal
Leave with no deal.

If the first part is remain, that's it done and dusted, if it's leave then the second votes come into play.