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Will the fat lady sing?

(263 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 21-Oct-19 10:03:00

The WA must be signed off by the voter. It can’t be seen as legitimate otherwise.

Don’t forget we have a government three of whom including the PM are being investigated for various potentially criminal acts, including knowingly breaking the electoral rules.

The electorate will never accept this without a confirmatory vote.

MamaCaz Mon 21-Oct-19 09:31:19

Exactly what Whitewave says.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 21-Oct-19 08:42:09

The PV can have a legal clause, so that if the WA is voted for by the public then it will be enacted. No Ifs or buts.

Calendargirl Mon 21-Oct-19 08:34:25

‘of course’

Calendargirl Mon 21-Oct-19 08:33:39

MamaCaz

So what happens if this new democratic vote is also split hmm? What then? But if course, it won’t be, will it?

MamaCaz Mon 21-Oct-19 08:27:18

It's a much bigger pity that the Tories and others won't put their 'deal' to a democratic vote to confirm or otherwise that a majority wants to leave on those terms.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 21-Oct-19 08:25:56

They will when it suits them. Remember we have a minority non-mandated government so parliament is de-facto calling the shots.

Calendargirl Mon 21-Oct-19 08:19:44

It seems a pity then that Labour and others won’t agree to a G.E.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 21-Oct-19 08:12:14

At the back of all these shenanigans we must never let go of the knowledge that everything Johnson does must be seen through the prism of his premiership bid.

Until and if he has won a GE he can never be seen as legitimate nor be mandated for his policies.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 21-Oct-19 08:07:59

The CU amendment does have a glimmer of hope as many Tories are unhappy at the Johnson WA as being too draconian.

They may well support the CU amendment.

Amagran Mon 21-Oct-19 08:00:27

Nice summing up, Whitewavemark2.

Worried as I am, I find it very reassuring that our Parliamentary Democracy allows these brakes to be applied to the will of an unscrupulous government to ensure opportunities for scrutiny, votes and amendments. It is by no means a perfect system, but it is so much better than the alternatives. I hope that MPs now proceed by following their conscience without allowing the threat of deselection etc. to lead them to support a rogue leader and a poor deal.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 21-Oct-19 07:56:36

One bit of change.

Bercow can’t stop the Yes/no vote because it wasn’t voted on on Saturday, (withdrawing doesn’t count) but he can stop it because it contravenes Letwin.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 21-Oct-19 07:48:52

Well

Starmer is talking to the DUP in the hope that a new alliance can be formed which will, it is hoped, force the government into a softer departure or/and confirmatory vote on whether to leave at all.
The softer departure will take the form of a customs union, which is obviously attractive to the DUP.

It is thought that there is enough cross party support for a CU. amendment.

Johnson is trying to rush through all stages of the Brexit legislation before the EU summit pencilled in for next week, but parliament may reject this rushed timetable because it doesn’t give sufficient time to scrutinise such a hugely important bill, and there will be a vote on this tomorrow. It is hoped that parliament will insist on giving itself more time over the extended transition period.

Johnson is attempting to get parliamentary backing for his Brexit deal in a straight yes/no vote today. Hoping to show support for his agreement. But it is expected that a Bercow will enforce parliamentary rules that say that parliament can’t keep bringing the same vote back, as was voted on, on Saturday and Johnson lost.

One suspicion is that if Johnson can get a meaningful vote through he will withdraw his extension letter.