Will the fat lady sing?

Not read this thread, but is it about Arlene?

Nonnie....I haven’t the faintest notion what you are burbling on about.Victim card, bullying? You confuse me with someone else entirely, I have never accused you of that .
If you mean my post saying that I don’t answer ‘badgering for answers’ type posts ....? It’s just a fact, I don’t bother with them.

If you say so Varian it must be right. I’ll go back in my box.

You say you think that you and your family would be better off "after brexit" NfkDumpling.

Are you and all your family tax-dodging billionaire currency speculators? -because it is quite clear that everyone else would be much worse off.

Nonnie - I can’t convince you you’re wrong because your circumstances are probably very different to mine so you see the world (well, the EU) very differently. Remaining may be right for you, it just isn’t for me.

I have only ever reported one post (it was a remain voter who was blaming leave voters for children’s deaths) I think in general it’s best to leave posts so that all can read them.

Nonnie
You obviously do not remember, but I did answer you in depth earlier this year. Plus I advised you to search back over Brexit threads where many many leave voters gave their reasons (may e not directly to you) over the last three years. Most of them have left this site because no matter how many times they justified their decision they/we are still met with the same ‘Leavers wont tell me why’.
Well this week I have asked the same question of remainers. I received one response the reasoning of which was disprovable. All I asked was concise reasons not generalisations. Would you care to contribute?

growstuff Wed 23-Oct-19 10:32:11 I've been on longer than that and I share your observations.

Labaik Wed 23-Oct-19 10:38:58 precisely

Whitewavemark2 Wed 23-Oct-19 10:38:27 I saw that too this morning, I thought it was very reasonable.

umpling Wed 23-Oct-19 14:04:13 I am happy for you but would you please share the reasons and convince me that i am wrong? Thanks

lemongrove Wed 23-Oct-19 09:56:35 & GrannyGravy13 Wed 23-Oct-19 10:13:41 you may well have answered on threads that I have not been on but you haven't done so on any I have so it is a perfectly reasonable question. However if you really do believe I am 'bullying' by asked a question you can report me to HQ and let them decide. Please explain where I have 'belittled'? Please don't do the 'victim' thing so many do when they can't answer the question, it does you no credit and I have seen it so many times.

Will my family be better off out of the EU? Yes, I think it will.

No; it's called asking a question and wanting an answer....

It is incredibly difficult to know when listening to Johnson exactly what you can trust and what you can’t.

Yesterday for instance there are a number of down righ5 lies he told and a few very fishy statements.

1. He said “there can be no regression” from the rights workers currently enjoy. Not true. WAB merely says government must tell MPs if workers are going to lose their rights. See Schedule 5A, Part 1, Clause (1)(b)

2.PM added the government will give time for an "amendable" motion if EU improves social protection. False. The motion isn’t amendable. (Schedule 5A, Part 2, Clause 5(a)).

3. Johnson said on Northern Ireland "default position is alignment with the UK". Untrue. Default position is alignment with the EU. ( Article 18, para 5 of the revised Irish protocol).

4. He claimed: “There are no checks GB-NI." Uh-oh. Government’s own impact assessment says: Goods moving fromGB to NI will have to "complete both import declarations and Entry Summary (ENS) Declarations This will result in additional admin costs to businesses.” (See para 241.)

5. PM added there was “absolutely no provision for the EU to have a say” on whether NI leaves arrangements. False. Revised protocol says: “Any subsequent agreement between the Union and the UK shall indicate the parts of this Protocol which it supersedes.” See Article 13 (8)

6. Johnson claimed NI "benefits immediately from any UK trade deals”. He forgot to say NI can only benefit from trade deals with third countries “provided that those agreements do not prejudice the application of this Protocol.” (See Article 4)

Now for the very fishy statements

1. He told MPs "we will take back 100% control of [our] spectacular marine wealth ”. But political declaration says UK and EU should try to “establish a new fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares” by next July (paras 73, 74)

2. PM promised “no crashing out [at the end of next year], because we will negotiate a great new friendship and partnership within the timescale.” But Barnier yesterday said that talks could take “two, three or more years”.

3. Johnson guaranteed “no problems at the channel ports and no problems on Kent’s roads”. Again, how can he give that assurance? If we crash out next year, it will be worthless.

4. PM said he had “every hope that the entire 3.4 million [EU citizens ] will have registered by the time of the deadline.” Maybe the vast majority will have. But the “entire” group? Not credible.

5. He gave a “commitment” to reinforce environmental standards, in response to a question over whether there would be a “clear non-regression clause, as we have on workers’ rights”. Even if he does, a commitment that copies the wording on workers’ rights won’t be worth much.

6. Johnson also gave an “assurance” that consumer protection will be written into the Bill. Again, if it’s like the language on workers’ rights, that will be cold comfort.

Perhaps Johnson doesn’t understand what he has signed , in which case he'll benefit from taking more time. Or he is trying to hoodwink MPs. Either way, the longer the scrutiny goes on, the more his deal will be shown to be rotten to the core.

Hugo Dixon

Hmm … I haven't been a member of GN for three years, but I can honestly say I haven't seen three years of "discussing the subject" anywhere and all I've seen on GN is defensiveness.

Belittling? How is pointing out that claims are wrong belittling?

I doubt if you've ever witnessed real bullying, if that's your definition.

lemongrove Badgering, constantly asking the same questions and belittling those who choose not to answer could be called bullying.

I just ignore all the demands for answers from posters like Nonnie after three years of discussing the subject, all some people want is to indulge in point scoring.
Do some reading up nonnie instead of badgering on here.
You won’t change your views, and you know it.

Lovetopaint037 Wed 23-Oct-19 09:00:23 well said. I never manage to be so concise!

I have to do it one page at a time as so many of you are on here far more than me!

NfkDumpling Tue 22-Oct-19 20:49:39 thank you for a response, it is appreciated. My reply:

We don't have to be part of a European Army but, if that were forced upon us in the future we could leave then. If we did I think it would be sad that we would lose the protection of our nearest neighbours when we need them most.

Please could you give me evidence that "nurses and carers from the rest of the world loose out when the want to work here." I really believed that we were short of both and would welcome suitably qualified people wherever they came from.

I am not 'belittling you, I really want the answers because if someone can prove me wrong I will change my views.

Are you able to answer my oft asked question 'can you give me 3 ways you and your family will be better off if we leave the EU? Thanks

GrannyGravy13 Tue 22-Oct-19 18:28:16 then please explain why you won't explain? I know you 'don't have to' so perhaps you could explain why you come on these threads and don't want to answer an obvious question? Thanks.

Opal Tue 22-Oct-19 19:17:04 thank you, finally one who has enough belief to give me an answer. My response: I agree with your first point about less say but at least we have some say which imo is better than none. We will be forced to follow EU rules if we want to trade with them so it would be better to have some say over what such rules are.

Your second point: no, we don't have to join the Euro, we never have and have never been forced to. However if that were forced upon us at some distant future we could decide whether to stay or leave at that time.

Your third point is very debatable, we currently benefit from trade with the EU under current arrangements by a huge amount. Any future trade deal with any country will be negotiated under their terms and we will have far less buying power us UK only than we have as part of the EU. Canada has already stated this.

I would really appreciate it if you would answer the question I have asked rather a lot: please tell me 3 ways you and your family will be better off if we leave the EU? Thanks

I think quite of lot of people have voted to leave because of all the anti-EU propaganda, some of which is true. If they were to produce a balance sheet of what comes in as a member and what we lose if we leave they might well come to a different conclusion.

maddyone Tue 22-Oct-19 19:36:13 it is sad if a poster leaves because they don't like a thread but in reality that is what GN is about. Presumably the 'bullying' was in accordance with the guidelines? I haven't spoken to this poster but I am aware of others who, when challenged or disagreed with, turn the tables and become a 'victim' when the reality is that they simply didn't get the agreement they wanted.

Not the finest hour but reasonably amusing and quite clearly tongue in cheek ( not a pigs cheek) and a change from the snide stuff.

Oink Oink.

Yes, I saw that GG13....haha, pretending they want a GE, but it fools nobody. They know they would lose if fought on a Brexit ticket.
There may not need to be an election now anyway, if a short extension is given.

maddyoneI am so lucky that the GN members that I meet up with are so nice, we talk for hours.

Grapefruitpip not your finest hour with that smutty post!!!!

I wonder if the vitriol spewing out on the political threads is panicking as our exit from the EU draws ever closer.

The Labour Party had MPs swarming over the TV news this morning saying how much they want a GE now......if only.

Another referendum is what we need and what hundreds of thousands marched for. Democracy my foot. A General Election will do nothing more than waste time and muddy the waters further. If Corbyn could be dragged away from the leadership Johnson would not be calling for a GE.

I’m still not sure how disagreeing with someone and pointing out their spurious arguments is “ bullying”.

WWM2 .....you have moved on from supplying us with quotes from Uncle Tom Cobbley and all, to a sheet of bullet points informing us of ‘political doings’.Why? We are all perfectly capable of reading the morning’s political news for ourselves.

Am so pleased that the stalemate is Parliament is being resolved and hope things will continue smoothly now.?

lemongrove, what a predictable response from you.

It was a joke.