Will the fat lady sing?

Apparently Labour is repaired to vote for an election as soon as the EU agree the extension.

Personally I can’t see what on Earth another election will achieve.

A political manifesto covers all areas, which completely muddles the result as almost certainly this will once again be an election on Brexit. And once again parties will claim erroneously that people voted for them because of their Brexit stance.

To my mind the only way is to clear the decks by having a confirmatory referendum that is legally binding.

grapefruit What a crude and bitter post from you.

My worry is that by the end of 2020 if trade talks are not satisfactory we leave without a deal. That is the situation, as it stands, according to this new agreement. Could this be Johnson’s and Cummings etc intention? No deal by the back door! Just don’t trust Johnson to tell the truth about anything, let alone deal with the most important change in generations.

There is no threat of a European Army. I'm a little weary of debunking this particular scaremongering myth.

There is absolutely no guarantee that carers from Fiji will find it easier to work in the UK after Brexit. Nfk If your father's carers had the correct visas, there is no way they could just have been replaced by people from any other country - the UK or anywhere else in the EU.

Hopefully Mogg and Johnson Esq will be fortified by an extra dollop of nanny's nursery pudding and perhaps a little pig shagging or donning the old penguin suit.

For whom do you think Whitewave should be caring?

Typical caring response again.

Well

The fat lady was set and ready to sing, when the director stepped in and said “you need more rehearsing”

Off she flounced in a sulk.

Yesterday.

The second reading of the WAB was voted through by 30 votes.
Parliament was then expected by Johnson for his own nefarious means, and JRMs pompous announcement of parliamentary business, to rush through the most important piece of legislation for 70 years in 3 days flat.

Can’t be done they were told. The vote was lost by 14, more than was expected.

“Why not work with parliament and work out a proper and acceptable length of time” he was asked.

Cue

Epic toddler tantrum.

Johnson’s threat to pull the bill if they turned down the business programme was it materialised just that - an empty threat. As he said nothing before he flounced out of the chamber.

I suspect however he rushed back to Daddy Cummings for comfort.

The technical term apparently is that the bill is in “limbo” - in essence, nothing can be done in parliament without a business programme.

Johnson’s further threat is that no-deal preparations will be ramped up .

He sounds more and more like Trump every day.

JRMogg later stood up to sulkily announced that if they couldn’t play with their own toys they’d play with the Queens instead.

The Queen Speech is back for debate for the rest of the week.

Opal, thanks. I understand your points.

As for all this hand wringing and twaddle about being bullied, isn't that what HQ monitor?

GrannyGravy, sadly I’m not in contact with Day6. We often communicated by PM and certainly didn’t only discuss Brexit, in fact we only mentioned it in passing. We shared information about our families and holidays. We talked about this and that. I really regret not swopping email addresses or mobile numbers now. There didn’t seem to be a need and now it’s too late. We were both teachers and we seemed to have a lot in common. She mentioned making ‘nice friends’ on Gransnet and I felt we were developing a friendship. Anyway, she’s gone now, maybe she thought a clean break would be best for her. I know she was very unhappy about certain things that had been said to her. I hoped that it might just make us all a bit more considerate of each other’s feelings, but the belligerent response from one poster put paid to that idea.
Sometimes I am surprised by the vitriol that is expressed on Gransnet, usually on Political/News threads. I take heart from the absolute care and kindness I have received from some Gransnetters when I have faced, and posted about terribly difficult personal circumstances.

I echo Opal's reasons for leaving. I don't like the idea of an European Army either. Or the way nurses and carers from the rest of the world loose out when the want to work here. My father's wonderful Fijian carers went home because they lost their jobs to East European agency workers who weren't nearly as good. I could go on, but I've said all this before and more and been belittled and put down so shut up. I will now retreat to following threads and not having the temerity to voice an opinion.

I deeply regret the news that Day6 has left. Hopefully she'll return soon.

I have no doubt that given time and like so many Day6 will reappear on this forum under a different name and I will be the first to welcome that

I had many debating clashes with day6 and always respected her forthright views. However, if any person outputs very strong forthright views, they must accept that others will respond in the same manner.

That is the essence of any discussion and debate.

maddyone if you are in contact with Day6 please give her my regards, she is truly missed.

And you think that there aren’t any remainers on here who don’t feel despondent?

You leavers will get your way - despite being in the minority as per the ongoing opinion polls. You can’t tell us what Brexit means in reality for any one of us, other than we’ll be ‘free’ of the EU.

So what we’re left with is many more years of uncertainty, instability and financial downturn waved away as ‘bumps in the road’ by rich Tories who stand to benefit from Brexit - that’s the only certainty.

If Day6 feels despondent about then that’s too bad - she voted for this mess and I feel no sympathy.

The poster known as Day6 has left Gransnet. I used to PM her quite often. She was really feeling quite down and in fact bullied on the Brexit threads. She was always articulate and reasoned in her posts, but she felt that some remainers on here bullied her. She became quite despondent about it all. I frequently advised her to avoid the Brexit threads, but she didn’t take my advice. I hope those of you, I won’t name any names, those of you who bullied Day6 are happy with yourselves. I think she’s a real loss to Gransnet because she was prepared to offer the opposing view. Discussion simply isn’t discussion if there is no opposing view. It’s a sorry state of affairs that this has happened.

I've given my reasons before, on another thread months ago - I don't like the slow creeping federalisation of Europe (we have far less say in the EU than we do with our own Government and political system), I think joining the Euro currency would be a huge mistake (and if we stay in we will be made to join it eventually), and I think it is far better for our national economy to be a free player in the global economy, than tied to economies who are, for the most part, far weaker than ours. It simply isn't a level playing field, the weaker EU economies will hold us back, we will prosper far better on our own.

Must be that they don't have any reasons then - none that are worth defending anyway.

Nonnie so far off the mark, I am not in the least controversial.

GG & Grow I can only speak for myself, I keep asking the questions on here and on Twitter and still have not had any sensible answers. I have had some rude answers but most simply ignore the question. Yes, some say they are sick of saying it but they haven't said it to me. Some have suggested I look it up and I have tried but I can't find any good reasons. I am happy to try to persuade people of my point of view and I would have thought that anyone who cared enough to come onto threads like this with conviction they are right would be happy to do the same. However, with the lack of their reasons I am left wondering if they really have any or just like to be controversial?

Time after time? Really?? I must have missed all those times. I honestly don't see the problem with giving a logical, rational reason and being prepared to support it.

Nonnie The thing is those who voted leave are sick of giving their reasons time after time, it’s just so boring!!

No one has to justify how they vote.

Urmstongran Mon 21-Oct-19 17:49:58 please let me explain it simply to you: If the majority of people on here think Brexit is a bad idea there is a very strong chance that most of the UK feels the same. I would suggest that as we are mainly older we probably are not a complete reflection as rumour has it the young feel more strongly about staying in the EU than baby boomers. Do you have an alternative explanation?

Still not had a leaver give me 3 good reasons why they or their family will be better off it we leave the EU. I wonder why that is?

If a vote of no confidence were to be passed an election is not inevitable. The convention is for the head of state,the Queen, to ask someone else to attempt to form a government. The Queen will be acting under advice, however the choice is her's and if it happens she does not have to make the offer to the leader of the opposition.

It is often forgotten that the Queen's father asked Churchill instead of Halifax to form a government in the early stages of WW2. Based upon that precedent it could be that she could ask say Ken Clark, Keir Starmer, Harriet Harman or someonelse she believes maybe able to form a government.

It will be interesting to see what happens

So if the government timetable gets voted down today, it is thought that Johnson will pull the bill even though it is thought that it would pass its second reading.

Johnson May then go for a GE.

lemongroveI completely agree with you, but JC and the other opposition parties have to call for a vote of no confidence and win, due to the fixed term parliament act.........and as we know they are frightened of losing their "seats"!