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Who is running this country?

(134 Posts)
MawB Thu 24-Oct-19 07:42:41

If I can remember that far back, I seem to remember one of the objections to being in the EU was of being governed by the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels, or some such phrase.
How do we feel about the “unelected” of the U.K?
I do wonder who is in charge when I read things like this in this morning’s paper
Reports of Dominic Cummings angrily banging his fist on a table during a meeting between the Prime Minister and Jeremy Corbyn surfaced soon after the pair met yesterday in an attempt to reach a compromise over the Withdrawal Agreement Bill (WAB)
It was alleged that when Mr Johnson asked the Opposition leader how long it would take to agree a new timetable – after the programme motion calling for his Brexit deal to be passed in three days was voted down on Tuesday night – an irate Cummings interjected: “No!”

I believe it was Margaret Thatcher who said “Advisers advise, ministers decide” - presumable including Prime Ministers hmm

growstuff Thu 24-Oct-19 10:29:11

Parliament has the power to curb big business. Unfortunately, the issue has been muddied because a percentage of MPs care more about their personal bank balances than the role of parliamentarian. Even more unfortunately, some of them don't appear to be very bright and don't know what they're talking about much of the time. It would appear that even an Eton and Oxford education doesn't result in wise heads.

MaizieD Thu 24-Oct-19 10:31:08

^ If they weren’t they would have been unable to stymie Parliament this week.^

Johnson is attempting to run a minority government. Would you like my little explanation of how a government needs a majority in Parliament in order to carry out its programme? Johnson has stymied himself by alienating the DUP and removing the whip from 'rebel' tories.

growstuff Thu 24-Oct-19 10:32:05

Sadly, many voters don't know much about what they're voting for either.

John Crace of Stathclyde University, who really does know what he's talking about on the subject of polls, reports that 44% of those people who think Johnson's deal is better than May's deal have no idea what the differences are. WTF?!

Amagran Thu 24-Oct-19 10:33:16

I find it deeply disturbing that those such as Bercow and the Supreme Court Justices are vilified. They are vilified not just by members of the public, who may have a poor understanding of how our democracy and rule of law work, but by certain sections of the press and government, who should know better.

We undermine the rule of law and the pillars of our Parliamentary democracy at our peril. It may 'get Brexit done', but sure as ordure runs downhill, it will come back to bite us all - Leavers and Remainers alike. B-i-g time.

varian Thu 24-Oct-19 10:34:23

When a focus group heard this fact about Brexit there was ‘horrified silence’

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/when-a-focus-group-heard-this-fact-about-brexit-there-was-horrified-silence-alex-cole-hamilton-msp-1-5030710

growstuff Thu 24-Oct-19 10:35:40

I know Maizie and I understand the difference. My point is that Parliament runs the country and it's interesting watching some of the Parliamentarians discovering their cajones.

Parliament hasn't been stymied this week. It's been asserting some of its rightful power.

moleswife Thu 24-Oct-19 10:36:40

Thank you contributors, this has been a really interesting thread to follow, your reasoned comments are most welcome and informative.

MaizieD Thu 24-Oct-19 10:37:36

When a focus group heard this fact about Brexit there was ‘horrified silence’

Not our keen Gnet Leavers then, who knew that they were voting for years of hardship and division... And who think that trade deals can be done in a few days...

Amagran Thu 24-Oct-19 10:38:08

As for Dominic Cummings - he has not, I believe, been subject to the rigorous selection procedure which Civil Servants undergo, nor the rigors of an election. Yet he calls all the shots.
How, then, do we know what sort of decision-maker our PM will be after the 31st Oct?

growstuff Thu 24-Oct-19 10:38:33

I couldn't agree more Amagram. What matters even more than Brexit are principles. After Brexit has become a chapter in the history books (admittedly a pretty weighty one), any precedents set now will become part of the "de facto" constitution.

Neilspurgeon0 Thu 24-Oct-19 10:39:09

I totally agree JenniferEccles. Shameful, we don’t seem to have had a decent, honest Speaker since Betty Boothroyd resigned/retired

Tinydancer Thu 24-Oct-19 10:39:44

Don't know about Dominic Cummings, although I feel he is an odious little man, but the non-dom tax avoiding billionaire newspaper owners have quite a big say in what happens. Even to the extent of bragging about it in the case of the Sun. The headlines are believed by gullible people and if it means it will affect their revenue from advertisers will not report scandals which affect us all. Sad state of affairs.

Amagran Thu 24-Oct-19 10:41:04

Hear-hear, moleswife.

growstuff Thu 24-Oct-19 10:41:33

You're right. Cummings isn't a civil servant. He's a political appointment and is still subject to contempt of Parliament for his behaviour during the referendum.

Marjgran Thu 24-Oct-19 10:43:14

I despair when I hear the civil service “run the country” - if that is were true we wouldn’t lurch through such turbulent times. Yes, they may influence or get in the way at times (sometimes thank goodness!) but many are currently burnt out, Brexit taking so much unproductive time, implementing cuts has also taken a toll. Are “they” remainers? Maybe the majority are, now let me think why that may be!!!

growstuff Thu 24-Oct-19 10:47:03

I agree with you too Tinydancer, which is why I don't hold with the people who vilify MPs for not voting the way their constituents did in the referendum. Some of them are doing it in the hope of hanging on to their seats, not because they believe Brexit is the best thing for their country - or even their constituents.

Constituents/voters are heavily influenced by a non-neutral press. MPs are (or should) be in a position to have a more balanced view of the whole picture. That's why the media are so keen to frame the law and Speaker as traitors and to push the idea that all MPs are useless. It all supports the "Parliament vs people" agenda.

Margs Thu 24-Oct-19 10:53:30

Alastair Campbell was Phoney Tony Blairs' chief advisor and he was un-elected. Ditto Dominic Cummings with Boris the Buffoon.

Both Mr Campbell and Mr Cummings have reputations for being bad tempered bullies.

The country is being run by a bunch of egotistical willy-wavers......

maddyone Thu 24-Oct-19 11:02:08

Very patronising Maizie. Typical of a remainer to be patronising I’m afraid.

Amagran Thu 24-Oct-19 11:03:13

The short answer to the OP's question is: Parliament.

It is why DC keeps thumping the table and why the PM thumps the air and people try to make out that Bercow is biased against those who would undermine Parliament.

BusterTank Thu 24-Oct-19 11:15:40

John Bercow is manipulating the rules to suit him self . He supposed to be impartial and he isn't . He thinks he is being so clever at the moment , he should be thrown out on his back side .

Whitewavemark2 Thu 24-Oct-19 11:19:20

buster

Think about it.

If the rules say such and such. Then that is that.

If they don’t there is nothing Bercow can do about it.

Do buck up

growstuff Thu 24-Oct-19 11:21:35

Bercow is only not impartial to those who don't want Parliamentary scrutiny and have an agenda they don't want to be challenged.

Of course, the partial media will do all it can to smear Bercow, the judiciary and the civil service and anybody else who truly cares about democracy behind the shrill squawks of populists.

growstuff Thu 24-Oct-19 11:24:03

How is Maizie being patronising maddyone? I've read that kind of claim many times from those on GN who voted to leave the EU.

JenniferEccles Thu 24-Oct-19 11:24:16

Thank you Neil

I am equally shocked at how so many on here are defending Bercow.

It’s inconceivable to me why he wasn’t kicked out the minute it became apparent how biased he is.

Treelover Thu 24-Oct-19 11:24:36

I agree with growstuff..and the OP's anxiety about the power of SPAD Cummings and, the power Milne has over Corbyn. Experts are great and should be utilised but when the elected leaders seem dependent on them, we don't like it. The Press eventually digs them out. They don't like exposure or the limelight preferring to work behind the scenes Machievelli- like.