Torres show their true colours

ayse and Dinahmo I agree with everything you say. The cost of private provision is bleeding the NHS dry.

The NHS was set up to combat infectious diseases which have largely been eradicated. It was thought , that a healthier population would need less health care, but the opposite has happened. Fewer people dying of infectious diseases, but more living with chronic ailments has led to more demands on the service. I think if we were designing the NHS today, we’d come up with a different model.

The NHS was set up to provide a universal health service post WW2. Until that time all medicine had to be paid for. At this time, even the Tories agreed it would be a good thing.

As far as I can see from documentation it was not set up just because of infectious diseases but to improve the health of the population. Think back to the 1950s when there was a school nurse, local clinics for maternity and child development etc. Local authorities were to provide preventative medicine whilst the hospital system was to care for all those needing treatment, not just those who could afford it and the deserving poor.

Today, positive preventative intervention may slowly be returning e.g. doctors telling patients to loose weight for their health, take more exercise etc. This is because IMO drugs are not working and are increasingly a drain on the public purse. Diet has long been recognised as a method of improving public health - school milk for calcium, orange juice for vitamin C and cod liver oil for vit A. Before both WW1 and WW2 the health of the man in the street was seen to be poor by army doctors and this was improved by proper rations for the troops and medical care when necessary.

The medical profession and governments have recognised for at least a century and a half that a large number of working people had insufficient nutrients in their poor diets, leading to ill health. Thus a real push post war to improve health and welfare.

Infectious diseases are now again on the increase, with TB resistant to current drugs and low vaccination rates. This of course is not to mention the global spread of other infections because of increased travel.

We certainly need a different model to the drift towards the return of private medicine where only those who could afford it would be treated.

Does anyone actually suggest that private medicine works in the USA where in many hospitals proof of insurance has to be provided before treatment and many are left with no recourse to medical help.

The system in continental Europe (Germany was the forerunner) has been in development since the second half of the 19th century. Private insurance companies have to provide the level of treatment as specified by the government and employers pay a larger percentage than do our employers. All are now covered by this government controlled partnership including those with ongoing health issues. Rather different than our private health companies who can decide to withdraw treatment as already discussed further back in this discussion.

I’m all for better treatment for all but not at the expense of a universal system for all.

The cheapest way to run an organisation is efficiently. The second thing, in the case of public services, is that they should not be run for a profit. While many goods will be bought from the private sector, if any part of the NHS is outsourced it should be to an organisation not run for profit, like a charity, not to a commercial company run for profit.

Dinahmo Many, and it may soon be most, who opt for private care do not do have health insurance and pay for it out of savings. They pay for it because the NHS cannot, or will not provide proper care within a reasonable time, for life-containing or very painful conditions and for most these are minor conditions like cataracts, where treating older members of society is considered unnecessary because they do not work and contribute nothing to society to make it worth while.

Delays in such operations as cataracts or carpal tunnel syndrome can have serious repercussions in older people and trip them up into being housebound, lonely and lead to a serious decline in their overall health.