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Safe in whose hands?

(71 Posts)
Yehbutnobut Wed 30-Oct-19 13:17:24

If just one issue mattered in this election, the fate of our NHS, then (in one word if possible?) how would you vote?

Countrylife Sat 09-Nov-19 08:02:13

You are going to open a can of worms politics will be involved impossible not to be.

Do you believe in NHS yes or no...then YES.

Who do I think will deliver better care, keep our institution then that’s political, for me anyone other than Trotsky lot! I’m not anti Labour Party but sadly the Labour Party doesn’t exist any longer. I’m anti Trotsky or if easier to understand Trotskyism,which, means I am anti Anarchy versus Achievement Politics.

Liz46 Sat 09-Nov-19 08:09:31

Support our NHS. I have had fantastic treatment. Stopping waste would be a start.

Grandad1943 Sat 09-Nov-19 08:23:02

We see the Labour Party described on this forum as Marxist, Trotskyists, Communist or extream left. However, in my view and experience of working often with many in the broader Labour movement, the vast majority of them are even less than hard left.

It should also be remembered that it was a hard left Labour government in 1945 that gave Britain the National Health Service. That government also gave Britain a nationalised rail system along with all utility services and the Welfare State.

Many of those Services it is now demanded should be returned to National ownership.

Oopsminty Sat 09-Nov-19 08:30:06

Can't answer with one word.

However, as an ex NHS worker, it cannot continue as is, forever.

A political party could throw billions at it and it wouldn't help

1947 was a different world. More people, more sophisticated equipment, drugs etc etc

We need to look to the EU as to how we fund

We languish at the bottom of Europe with our cancer diagnosis and survival.

It was a fabulous idea but isn't working.

Labour itself began privatising certain aspects so all the blame cannot be laid at Conservative's door

Oopsminty Sat 09-Nov-19 08:34:32

And in case anyone asks for a link re: cancer diagnosis/survival rates, there are numerous to be found.

Here's just one

Greta Sat 09-Nov-19 09:41:13

There are many areas where we lag behind the rest of Europe, cancer treatment, childcare, housing. But in order to address those issues we must leave Europe. Logic?

Those are of course the issues most people are concerned about. I don't believe any party will sort it, despite promises. We need a new model national health.

Davidhs Sat 09-Nov-19 09:45:36

Greta logic has nothing to do with politics at present it’s 100% emotion and we are very vulnerable

MaizieD Sat 09-Nov-19 09:48:54

However, as an ex NHS worker, it cannot continue as is, forever.

A political party could throw billions at it and it wouldn't help

Could you explain what your thinking is behind these statement, Ooopsminty?

Are you saying that we shouldn't be investing in the NHS? If so, why not?

Grandad1943 Sat 09-Nov-19 09:56:17

Greta I would agree that the National Health Service requires "upgrading". However, the principle that the service should be free to all at the point of delivery has to remain as central to the service. I also believe that remains central to the thinking of the vast majority of people who reside in this country.

Health should not be dependent on wealth. However, I find that has now become part of what the Tory Party would wish to see, even if they dress that up as otherwise.

Oopsminty Sat 09-Nov-19 10:02:07

*Could you explain what your thinking is behind these statement, Ooopsminty?

Are you saying that we shouldn't be investing in the NHS? If so, why not?*

I'm saying we need to rethink how we pay for our healthcare.

Just google how European countries fund their healthcare and you'll see what I mean.

There is a vast amount of waste and mis-use. The NHS is ripped off with prices of drugs.

Here is one example

Just one small example of what goes on.

I'm not going to explain any more. Google. See what's wrong with the NHS

It will be a very brave politician who tries to implement any changes though because as a population we are blind to its faults.

Until, of course, a loved one suffers

Callistemon Sat 09-Nov-19 10:17:24

I'm in two minds about the NHS and out-sourcing. Some of the areas I have heard about which have been outsourced are more efficient and patients are full of praise at their treatment and the short waiting times. And free at the point of delivery, of course as they are NHS..
A friend has been attending a clinic which is, she tells me, outsourced totally to a German company and excellent according to her. What will happen to that though, post-Brexit?

Perhaps not-for-profit organisations are the way forward?
Welsh Water is a not-for-profit organisation and perhaps all water companies should be run like that too.

We do need to have a re-think on how we fund our healthcare Oopsminty, there are many inefficiencies in procurement and even scandals where loopholes allow unscrupulous providers to 'rip off' the NHS (in effect stealing money from the sick).

MaizieD Sat 09-Nov-19 10:20:54

Thanks, Oops.

But I don't see why that requires a rethink on how we pay for our NHS.

I understand that you think that the NHS is wasting money (and if you're worried about the price of pharmaceuticals just wait until the US pharmaceutical companies get going after Brexit..) but that is a systemic problem, not a funding problem, isn't it?

Callistemon Sat 09-Nov-19 10:23:53

It is and I can never understand why with its immense purchasing power, the NHS pays more for drugs than other health institutions or even the general public does for non-prescription drugs.

Callistemon Sat 09-Nov-19 10:24:37

Auto-correct has taken out my commas, hope that makes sense!
I must try to turn it off.

MaizieD Sat 09-Nov-19 10:27:26

This short report from the Kings Fund might challenge some of the assertions made on here (and support others). What do others think?

Nonnie Sat 09-Nov-19 11:05:16

I'd vote for a party which put a few grans in each NHS department and allowed them to look for small savings. I know I could find many. Today I received my bowel testing kit, which I have done and returned every time so why did they need to write and tell me they were going to send it? So very many small things which would add up to so much more efficiency and savings. We need to start at the bottom and work up.

Fiachna50 Sat 09-Nov-19 11:22:12

I know my view won't be popular. They definitely need to start charging people who do not turn up for appointments and do not let the surgery know. Im sick of waiting 5 weeks for a GP appointment and when I get there, seeing a sign that says. 60 hours of GP's time wasted as x amount of folk were no shows. I bet charging even £10 for a no show would solve alot of this and at the same time would put some money back into the system. Maybe not a vast amount, but it would free up appointments for other people. I think the NHS is at breaking point.

Dinahmo Sat 09-Nov-19 11:40:55

Last night we watched a tv programme about rock and roll and one of the artists featured was Dick Dale. In the late sixties/early seventies he developed colorectal cancer and retired from music for several years. He suffered from many health problems including diabetes, renal failure and damaged vertebrae but had to continue performing in order to meet his medical bills. He died in March aged 81. He was American.

Do we really want the British people to have to continue working in order to pay medical bills?

The NHS was set up to provide free healthcare for everyone. Things have moved on. We are living longer and new cures and treatments have been discovered so we need
to make improvements. But I firmly believe that it should still be free at the point of access.

Dinahmo Sat 09-Nov-19 11:42:19

I forgot to add 'beyond retirement' to 'continue working'

MaizieD Sat 09-Nov-19 12:08:09

But I firmly believe that it should still be free at the point of access.

But I don't see why the state shouldn't fund it. Why should companies be making profit from actually providing services; they have plenty of opportunity to take profit from every other aspect of the NHS.

Nonnie Sat 09-Nov-19 12:22:08

I have to ask why the NHS outsources things like hearing tests and eye tests? It appears that these things are done efficiently by other companies which are also making a profit. How can they do it cheaper than the NHS? Why can't the NHS do it cheaper when there is no profit motive?

Ginny42 Sat 09-Nov-19 12:46:52

I dread the scenario where the hospital, or even before that, the paramedics check to see how much you can afford before care begins. Of course those who can afford private health care aren't going to be worried, unless they give a fig about the less well off.

Hospitals are using agency nurses at great cost. I know a nurse who works in a hospital and also works overtime for an agency at the same hospital for a high fee. Multiply that by however many nurses are employed in this way and I'm guessing it's a huge amount.

A friend has been confined to a care home post op because there were no carers to visit her at home. When it went beyond the 6 week limit free care, she wasn't charged because, 'it wasn't her fault'. That continued for 4 weeks. She's home this week and an emergency care team from social services are making 4 visits per day free of charge because they still haven't got a care team, so she can't have a care package contract. It seems a shortage of staff is the main cause of this particular drain on the NHS.

Anniebach Sat 09-Nov-19 13:27:14

The NHS of 1948 cannot be compared with the NHS 2019

Callistemon Sat 09-Nov-19 14:39:54

But I firmly believe that it should still be free at the point of access.
I don't think anyone is arguing with that Dinahmo
It is the way it is organised and run that is up for debate.

Should it even be taken completely out of the hands of politicians?

The NHS of 1948 cannot be compared with the NHS 2019
Absolutely right