Mogg

Because it's unkind, it's unfeeling, and shows a total lack of empathy or respect for the families.
No surprise there, though.

So there we are Jennifer- you have sunk to his level, and it does not look good. As for class, I have no idea of your background, so it is irrelevant. Shame on you.

Yes the fire was a terrible tragedy we all know that but he was just expressing what a lot of us thought

Which was the wrong thing to do. A man in his position shouldn't express such thoughts - he should have the foresight and intelligence to realise how inappropriate that was.

Please don't tell me what I think. I thought " that's terrible"

Then I thought " I can't cope with knowing the heart wrenching details"

Then I thought " My God, how could anybody see fit to use this as some sort of comedy and a family party?"

Then I thought " Did he really say that"

and/at

Nobody would have told me to stay put, no matter who, so both Mogg and the fire service were wrong in what they said.

So much class envy is evident on here.

Whatever do you mean by this? Rees-Mogg's comments would have been equally despicable regardless of his class. I have seen no-one but you mention class, and I am baffled by your use of 'envy'.

I agree EV.

Of course with hindsight we can be 100 per cent sure of making the right decision

You can't really know what you would have done. I may have been too afraid to go against the experts' instructions.

The fire service got it hideously wrong.

I agree Gone - I think it’s very easy to say what you would or wouldn’t have done, but when you’re responsible for your family’s safety in horrific, terrifying circumstances I couldn’t say for certain what I’d have done. I would like to think that a senior member of the Govt wouldn’t question my common sense afterwards if I did the ‘wrong’ thing though.

A sickening number of people seem to have fallen for the Tory party/right wing press story that somehow, this tragedy was the fault of the residents/fire service anyone but the bloody people who approved the cladding, who ignored the many complaints from Residents Association about fire hazards, faulty fire doors etc. Your comment JE is beyond belief; Rees-Mogg is what he is, an unfeeling, uncomprehending sh*t, but those of you who excuse his behaviour, or accuse the rest of us of some sort of 'class envy' need to have a good look at yourselves.

Kuenssberg described it as a gaffe..

Tom London

It was not a “terrible gaffe”

It was an ill-informed, crass, profoundly heartless & cruel, piece of victim-blaming

It was not a mere “terrible gaffe”

It was on top of what he said about that doctor which everyone seems to have forgotten about. Should he not have learned his lesson about engaging his brain before opening his mouth? I mean, this is an experienced politician. Lets also not forget what has happened to Nazanin Radcliffe because of Johnson's 'gaffe' also.

Perhaps he does engage his brain, and what he says are the least bad.

I went to buy an apartment on the first floor of a three storey development. I asked the sales rep where the fire escape was and she told me just what those residents at Grenfell were told. I immediately thought well, I won't be buying this then.

However, my DD really liked the look of the place so we went back and during the second viewing, I mentioned to the rep what his colleague had said, but thought he must have been mistaken surely.

'Oh no', he said, 'after a fire in the Midlands somewhere the advice was to stay put and by then the fire brigade would be there'. Really? In all weathers and all traffic conditions? It confirmed for me that however nice it was, I wouldn't be living there. And that was just three storeys high.

* sickening number of people seem to have fallen for the Tory party/right wing press story that somehow, this tragedy was the fault of the residents/fire service anyone but the bloody people who approved the cladding, who ignored the many complaints from Residents Association about fire hazards, faulty fire doors etc*

Untrue.

Nothing to do with right wing press or politicians.

This was discussing the inquiry where the 'stay put' advice was wrong .

I have worked in large offices. Hundreds of people. Civil Service and private. Fire? Leave the building.

I was a juror at a Crown Court where hundreds of people were in attendance.

Fire alarm.

We all traipsed out.

If something is on fire I run for it. But these people were told to stay. Which sadly was the wrong thing in the situation.

I recall the live horror of watching it on the night and people on the ground screaming at the residents to leave. Harrowing.

But please, don't play political games.

The cladding is still in use in many buildings up and down the country. In both Labour and Conservative wards.

The next inquiry will be looking into this and no doubt we'll see criticisms

Our firefighters were brilliant that night. Nobody is criticising them

Tory party policy - blame the victims

They blamed villagers for Aberfan
•They blamed miners for Orgreave
•They blamed fans for Hillsborough
•They blamed Families for Grenfell

It's not a "gaffe", it's party policy!

This thread just seems another excuse to have a go at JRM. he didn't say the residents had 'no common sense', he said leaving the building just seemed to be the common sense thing to do which is very different. I'm not saying he was right to comment on this, just that it is not as dreadful as people are making out and not a criticism of the residents. During the interview he is clearly saddened by the event just the same as everyone else.

Honestly, no-one dare say anything these days for fear of people throwing a barrage of vicious insults at them.

Like I said JRM spoke the truth. He said the tragedy was primarily caused by the cladding but compounded by residents staying put.

That is exactly what happened.

He obviously regretted the ‘common sense’ comment and apologised.

Why then is there so much hatred of him displayed on here?

Not everyone finds it easy to disobey authority. If you had just asked the people if they thought they should leave a burning building or not I expect they would all have said they should. However, if they are told the fire brigade says it is safer to stay put inside their flat away from the smoke and let the fire brigade put the fire out and not get in their way, then some people will assume they should obey and some will leave anyway. As the fire spreads some of those who obeyed will change their minds and come to the conclusion they should have left. But now they have a new question because it is now harder to get down the stairs, the smoke is thicker, the heat more intense. Now it takes real bravery to attempt it. Now you or your family are so scared. Now you know either decision could be fatal but you must chose quickly. Can you think clearly? Can you push through your fear? What if you have extra considerations like mobility issues or asthma? Do you honestly still think this was about common sense? But yes, now we all know if we ever find ourselves in that situation we will leave, even though there may end up being injuries and deaths from the sudden rush of people on the stairs.

I agree Chestnut

What has he done to enrage people?

I guess being public school/Eton educated and speaking properly is enough for some. Pathetic.

He is always unfailingly polite and well mannered even under extreme provocation

I agree with Jennifer's second post but unfortunately some people lack the confidence to over-rule someone in authority - in this case the firemen. I am tired of said firemen being blamed for the tragedy. They are very brave people merely following policies laid down by others.

Sorry flying - we crossed.

If JRM had read the report as he claims, he would know that it is standard advice to stay put in case of fire on the basis that (1) fire doors are meant to contain the fire within the area and (2) hundreds of people rushing downstairs, possible falling, and blocking the way will hinder the progress of the fire fighters. the whole thing was the 'perfect storm' of mis-information, poor quality products,and although none of us know what we would do in this type of dreadful situation, I certainly would not blame the residents for doing as they were advised. In a previous thread, one poster puts the decline of society in general down to the current generation's unwillingness to obey orders and do as they are told, both opinions cannot be right.