Lying for votes. No costing from ERG Tories but lies about not yet released Labour manifesto.

You would have to be a fool to believe that only one political party, just before an election, tells lies!
And please! All this ‘your party lies more than my party’ stuff is juvenile.
It’s nothing new, it happens every GE, lies, smears, accusations against the other side, political point scoring off each other ( like Corbyn setting the Labour North against the Conservatives and the South) with his letter saying if it had been Surrey flooded it would have been declared as a national emergency.There are criteria laid down for declaring that, which up to yesterday had not been met.With more rain expected it may yet meet that criteria.Sheer electioneering, which you would expect.Given the right circumstances, Johnson would do the same to the LP.They all do it!

So name the party, rather than the individuals, that’s never lied or been economical with the truth GGMk3.

They’re all at it and I’m sure someone as clever as you is aware of it but because of your political leanings you sweep it under the carpet as something trivial then try to persuade others without affiliation that it’s t’other side who are unfit to govern.

What many people seem to forget is the EU had lost its appeal to many people ling before the referendum.

Jo Swinson was calling for a referendum 10 years ago!

We've had Eurosceptics for years.

Jeremy Corbyn being one.

The remain campaign also 'lied' with it's prophecies of millions of job losses, house prices plummeting and all within a week of a vote leave.

I don't believe that many people saw that bus advert and decided to vote leave.

The people are not as stupid as some would like to believe

This is not about individual MPs, it is about a whole party setting out to deceive - rather as so many extremists have done in the past. Lying at this level, about a group in order to completely misrepresent them, is akin to the racially or culturally based hatred we have seen in the past where a particular group is vilified by the use of down-right, provable lies.

How does that compare Pantglas to any single politician being economical with the truth. What we are talking about is manufactured "fact", about a group in order to attack democracy. The only equivalent I can think of are racial lies in order to keep power by suppressing others. That, for me, sums up what the Vote Leave group did with their numbers on the bus and what the current ERG Tories are doing with the Labour spending figures.

Not only is this despicable but it is usually used by those who wish to be masters of others or dictators. But we are not enslaved people in the USA or counties overrun to create an empire. We want democracy and I don't believe we should let these thugs get away with destroying it.

What is the difference between ‘economical with the truth’
and ‘lies’ ?

And have you found that it’s only Tories that lie as so many on here appear to believe?

No, I don't think I'm forgiving, but I rarely watch TV, so I don't see or hear what politicians say that often.

Nevertheless, I read what they say or are reported to have said and I check out any facts at source. I then make up my own mind.

You’re a lot more forgiving than me then Growstuff!

I’d have more respect for the ones who told me the plain unvarnished truth (from either side) and would make my choice accordingly. As it is now I have to decipher the bias in the media before I can begin to weigh the pros and cons and I lose patience with those who accuse t’other side of lying as if butter wouldn’t melt.....

There's a difference between being economical with the truth and downright lies.

I believe all politicians lie and at best are economical with the truth - they have to otherwise no one would vote for them!

Tell you what, name me one who doesn’t?

Which other blatant lies for the sake of propaganda were you thinking of Pantglas2. Personally, I don't see the Tory/Brexit Co. Ltd stitch-up as a lie.

However, the Tories have now been taken to task by almost every commentator and expert for their numbers re the LP spending. We have also heard that, just like the numbers on the bus, they don't care if they are right or wrong. Of course, this is all being managed by the same "leave" team.

Show me another person/party lying so blatantly (not just disagreeing with your opinion) and I am, and I am sure others are prepared to look at them and include them in the conversation.

It's all very well asking the question but it appears you don't have an answer yourself or you would have put forward at least one comparison from other parties.

Why do you only abhor the Tory lies varian?

I abhor all the Tory lies Maizie. It is far too easy for their supporters to shrug their shoulders and say other parties lie too but the Boris Johnson brexitories lie on an industrial scale and the media so often fail to call them out so they keep getting away with it.

I think we can only ask more of our journalists I suppose but I do feel there needs to be something like the electoral commission who can step in when the lies are so obvious.

What's that got to do with lies about Labour's as yet non existent spending plans, varian?

When the Liberal Democrats, Greens and Plaid Cymru announced an election pact it was completely transparent that the aim was to elect more Remain supporting MPs. No money changed hands nor were there bribes to individuals.

Contrast this with the Brexit-Tory pact. They deny it is a pact yet it seems that shady money and foreign influence is involved and crooked Farage is being promised a title and/or high public office.

If you are happy for your children and grandchildren to be poorer as long as Lord Farage becomes our ambassador to the USA, then vote Brexitory.

It would help if every Labour politician or supporter interviewed said that what the tories are saying is a complete lie, a fantasy, because Labour plans haven't even been published yet!

It would also help greatly if people stopped believing in the myth that a national budget is the same as a household budget. Then they could look at spending plans more rationally:

www.progressivepulse.org/uncategorized/the-household-fallacy

Glad to see recently that many interviewers are just not accepting the tacting of deflecting questions to pre-prepared stuff or attacks to the opponents.

They should ask and if the above happens- cut off immediately. Then ask again, and cut off if they do not answer the question and ask again a 3rd time- then cut off altogether if the same happens.

I agree, it's quite disgraceful and should be challenged whenever it occurs.

For one thing, it's got to be a sign of weakness when all they can do is bash the opposition and indeed, lie rather than promote their own agenda.