Four day week

Diane Abbott has done the sums, so everything will be OK.

Anniebach Quote [ I don’t think it will work for all. Comparing Microsoft with small businesses is daft. ] End Quote.

Anniebach, four day working weeks applies just as well for small and medium sized businesses as it does for large.

By example, a small transport contractor engaged in home delivery for a large online retailer that requires seven days working.

That contractor can then engage one driver employee on a nine or ten-hour day for four days and then a second on three days of ten or eleven hours. Both the forgoing would working either four days on duty followed by three days off, or three days on duty followed by four days off.

The above covers all the required working for the vehicle and the employees get longer periods of rest in terms of days off, while the employer gets maximum flexibility in terms of vehicle and employee engagement.

The above has been worked in the road transport industry for a considerable number of years. How else would anyone get what they ordered online delivered on a Saturday or Sunday without such flexibility?

The same applies to employees in many of the Distribution centres that setup the orders for delivery.

Callistemon The priority in a secondary school is always to have specialists, especially with exam classes. You're right that part-timers sometimes lead to classes having a specialist for, for example, three lessons out of four and a non-specialist for the fourth lesson, if the class needs teaching when no specialist is available.

The problem of non-specialists is beyond this thread and is mainly caused by chronic shortages in some subjects. Absences, including long-term absences, are sometimes covered by cover supervisors, who are often not even trained teachers. It's an absolute scandal, but I'm not sure how much parents are really aware what's going on.

I wonder how this will work for my DS who has a contracted 47 hour week?

I used to work a 4 day week (a charity) but had extended hours for the 4 that I was in, and this gave me a day off in the week.
I loved it! I was used to starting work early and working unpaid overtime anyway (many people in small charities have to do this to keep things working!) and this just formalised things and allowed me a much needed day in the week to sort out personal admin (for things that were not open at weekends like the council tax department!) and a day when I could indulge a hobby without children under foot!

Teachers. As I understand it teachers are leaving the classroom in droves because of the long hours and increased stress... I have seen it stated that a significant number of teachers leave the profession within 5 years of qualifying... (I'd have to check that, though and don't have time to do so ATM).

But don't forget, all the increased spending is more money circulating in the economy, more money for infrastructure projects and consumer spending, and more money returning to the Treasury in tax take.

I can see 'inflation' being raised as an objection, but it only becomes inflationary if resources become scarce.

growstuff does that also mean that even more teachers would be timetabled to take classes in subjects which are not their specialty?

I've heard grumbles before now, that with staff shortages, some teachers are just supervising classes and doing not much more than that.
Disastrous for the pupils as they approach exams.

M0nica so the £6 billion that Labour have promised over and above the Tory spending on the NHS is just a drop in the ocean if wages are in effect to go up by 20%.

I can see what will, happen, as happens now.

Nurses and other essential staff will sign on to agencies and come in on their time off to do the same jobs as their permanent jobs, all costing the NHS far more in wages as agencies take their cut.

Upon reflection, it sounds like 'back of an envelope politics', ill-thought through.

Don’t know what the latest take on this is, but I understood when it was originally mooted, it meant every worker would do a 4 day, 32 hour week, but on the same wage as before.
Bit of backtracking since then I think.

sodapop In my past life, I was responsible at one time for timetabling in a big comprehensive school, so I know that timetabling part-timers causes problems.

If schools are to be open for five days a week, but staff only work four days a week, it's inevitable that many classes would end up being "split", which isn't ideal, and increases the time needed for co-ordination. It also means that tutors aren't available every day and that staff aren't always available for staff meetings, CPD sessions or parents' evenings, etc. At the moment, part-timers often come into school on their day(s) off anyway.

How many unemployed doctors, nurses, teachers, IT experts, Chartered engineers, Solicitors, Accountants are there on the unemployment register?

We won't know with any certainty because people who work one hour a fortnight are counted as employed, so won't be on 'the register'. We certainly hear it reported that graduates find it hard to get jobs that use their qualifications and end up working as baristas and similar. Who knows what skills are going untapped at the moment.

As the few experiments in 4 day working have reported increased productivity that could mean that so many extra workers might not be needed.

But there are so many variables. AS Grandad pointed out, it could be viable in sectors where we increasingly expect 7 day access anyway. And in office work do we actually need bodies there Mon- Fri? If the work can be done more productively in 4 days it makes little difference. 5 day working is not divinely ordained.

As for the effect on prices and profit, much the same arguments were made about reductions in hours and working weeks from the Victorians onwards.

I'd like to see much more detail before I start criticising it.

I would guess that the 4 day week would not cover everything, mainly for what few industries we have left.
It gives permission legally for businesses to change their work practices to be changed if they so wish and if it is suitable. It doesn't mean that everyone should suddenly work a day less!
GP surgeries are now mainly manned by part time staff from the GPs through to the receptionists and dispensary staff. At my own GPs, think the only full timer is the practice manager! Long gone are the days when the GP was expected to work for 8 hours, plus cover night calls and weekends - unless they are happy to work either in an out of hours centre or the local 111 call centre.

Grandad1943, the staff might have been making a special effort in that time knowing the system was on trial and they wanted it to be permanent. They might relapse into 80% efficiency once the 4 day week has become permanent!

I understood that the Labour idea was effectively decreasing hours worked by everyone working 20% fewer hours - but for the same pay!!!!!

The idea is that it will help reduce unemployment. I can see so many mistakes in this policy, but here is one to start with.

How many unemployed doctors, nurses, teachers, IT experts, Chartered engineers, Solicitors, Accountants are there on the unemployment register? We will need a massive influx of immigrants to fill all the extra highly-skilled jobs. Except that many, many companies will go bust when there wage bills rise by 20 percent for existing staff, plus employing more, so there will be fewer jobs and a big rise in the number unemployed

We need far more detail of how this would work in practice and hear views of employers, employees, trade unions etc.

A rolling week offering NHS services 7 days a week sounds good but we need to see how the funding would work, how many extra staff would be needed, where they would be found, the years of training required etc.

At the moment this seems to be just a soundbite, an election pleaser.

I don’t think it will work for all

Comparing Microsoft with small businesses is daft.

It won't work.

I don't think it means schools, businesses, GP's etc. will only be open for 4 days a week...more that each individual employee works for four days - at however long their working day is negotiated. Less commuting, less damage to our air quality, more family/leisure days opening up more retail opportunities. Seems like a fair plan to me

Apologies should be "their" above not "there".

My D already works 4 days a week----@ 12hrs a day ! 5am/5pm

Microsoft have introduced four day working at one of their large establishments in Anerica. To there surprise that at the end of six months productivity had increased by fifteen percent.

Which proves "thinking outside the box" can bring great rewards.

People might find this interesting. Report on a trial of 4 day working in NZ:

www.theguardian.com/money/2019/feb/19/four-day-week-trial-study-finds-lower-stress-but-no-cut-in-output

Worth reading all of it, not just the headline

Anniebach Quote [ Will doctors surgeries open for 4 days a week?] End Quote.

Anniebach any industry or profession can introduce a four day rolling week if those that work in that industry or profession are willing to engage in such working

I am certainly no expert in the medical profession but I would have thought that a four day on, three days off rolling week would enable Doctors surgeries to open seven days per week if required.

Why would it be more problematic in schools than anywhere else ?

I can see how it would work in an ideal world but we don't have Utopia. As yehbutnobut said some services are already being propped up by staff working long hours. This needs to be addressed first.