young people increasingly say 'NO children'

There seems to be an assumption in some quarters that people who don't want children are somehow selfish. I don't see it that way at all, not every woman has a strong maternal instinct, why should they be criticised for this. One of my daughters has never wanted children and never will. Fortunately now women can choose whether or not to become parents.

If you don't want children, don't have them!

Much better for the planet.

My sister and her husband made a choice not to have children and she spent most of the time telling the rest of us how to do it (parenting that is) properly, telling us that she had 'observed' enough from friends to know how it should be done. Now she is in her 60's and has no children or grandchildren, she resents anyone who has family/grandchildren around them.

Much better for YOU!

Monica, we had our DD1 in 73, DD2 in 75. I remember those times well. Currently, there is NO border for environmental disasters- and the break up of Europe, with Putin and Trump both pulling on either side- is a very different situation, Id say.

It has been said that those who have decided not to have children are often those very people who should be reproducing as they tend to be intelligent well educated educated people who have carefully thought things through.

In contrast those at the other side of the spectrum are the very ones who tend to have umpteen children.

Of course it’s a controversial theory but maybe there’s some truth in it.

There is some truth in that JenniferEccles as I have 2 friends who chose not to have children, one an ex-teacher who married a teacher and the other one who'd wanted to work her way up in what she was doing to gain her Masters, which she did. She too is married. Both couples happily wed might I add.

I just can’t imagine not wanting children. I always wanted them, and truly think I married in order to have them. (It was usual in my youth to marry before having children!) I particularly wanted a daughter, but didn’t manage that - am nevertheless happy with my two sons.

I like the sense of continuity, of my life not being the end. I now have grandchildren too. I take none of this for granted. To me it’s a perpetual wonder.

Actually, jura I would say it was much the same, the fear of assured destruction whether by nuclear bombs or climate change is total and worldwide.

JenniferEccles, with birthrates dropping below replacement rate for so many countries, the proportion of the population as a whole having umpteen children is vanishingly small. www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/aug/01/birth-rate-in-england-and-wales-at-all-time-low

I was never broody or wanted children but we had an 'accident'! Then we wanted more. I can't imagine, now, not having kids and grandchildren.

My brother and friend both decided not to have any, though. My brother didn't want to be responsible for the suffering of a new human on a dying planet - and my friend just doesn't like kids and finds them annoying! There's good reasons for all the options.

It doesn't seem particularly educated to me to take your genes out of the pool because of what Daniel Dennett has called a "sterilising parasite" meme (cultural idea, roughly speaking). It goes against all evolution. Life is about survival and passing on genes.

I realise that the anti-human meme that we are a complete and utter plague on the planet is fashionable right now. It'll die out because its holders will.

I don't see the human race dying out just yet because a few people decide not to have kids. If I was starting out now I wouldn't bother either.

Baggs ''I realise that the anti-human meme that we are a complete and utter plague on the planet is fashionable right now. It'll die out because its holders will.''

Are you really denying that the world is over-populated and becoming increasingly polluted + warming up/planet change- and that it is all a 'meme'. Really ???

I do not regret a single moment of our decision to have children, my children have always been my pride and joy, even if at times I felt like giving them away - for an hour or two.

Are you really denying that the world is over-populated and becoming increasingly polluted + warming up/planet change- and that it is all a 'meme'. Really ???

That's not what I said. What I said was only about people who choose not to have kids.
Like the Shakers of eighteenth century America. The believed in complete celibacy for everyone, not just the priesthood. The result: not many Shakers around now (if any) who believe such things because those who believed it and acted on it died out. It is the belief that is the meme.

It could happen again, I suppose though the meme has been generated in a different way.

Check out Steve Stewart-Williams's book, The Ape that Understood the Universe for better descrips of memes.

My brother didn't want to be responsible for the suffering of a new human on a dying planet
What a strange idea, Hetty.
Unless parents actively abuse their children or fail to provide them with food and shelter, or fail to protect them from harm, they are not responsible for anything their offspring might suffer.
Philip Larkin might have thought so, but I don’t think he had a ‘dying planet’ in mind when he wrote those famous lines.

We have 5 children. I have never regretted having a big family. Of course we have had down times as all other families do. It is fascinating watching five different people emerge from the same upbringing. I am really proud of them( most of the time!) I was also fortunate enough to enjoy my career as well. I respect those who decide children are not for them but I can't imagine feeling like that myself.

Takes all sorts to make a world

Thankfully, yes.

It would be boring if just the most 'intelligent' people reproduced. (Although intelligence takes many forms, I think)

Oops! Unintelligent.

There seems to be more conscious decisions not to have children amongst those in 30s/40s these days ...at least amonst our family and friend. One set of friends have 2 children in 40s. One has 2 children the other none.Another set of friends have 2 dds. Neither have children of their own. My brother has 2 dds. One has 2 children the other none. Just my circle I know but amongst my mother's closest friends all had children of their own. I think there is a distinct change. Maybe people are less judgemental about other people's choices. I know that when I was young I got continual hints/questions, especially from MIL about why I was stopping at one. Perhaps there isn't the pressure now or the feeling that having children was the automatic 'next' step after marriage.

amongst/friends

with birthrates dropping below replacement rate for so many countries, the proportion of the population as a whole having umpteen children is vanishingly small.

That's not really the case, MOnica.

It is in developed countries.

The United Nations have forecast the population will have risen from 7.2 billion today, to 8.1 billion in 2025.

Most of this growth will be in developing countries and more than half in Africa.

My daughter didn't want children. Then an accidental pregnancy at 32 resulted in my adored grandson. I really wanted grandchildren and was, and still am, over the moon with him. He is very, very loved.