Con merchants

growstuff I don't think I made myself clear about PFIs - I don't think they are a particularly good thing. They were short-term gain for long-term pain although I will say that some services did improve when out-sourced but at a cost.

What I was trying to say that, although England went down the expensive PFI route, services do seem better than in Wales which did not.

But that is what would happen if it was privatised UG. Are you saying that if it is privatised it will still be free?

Ah. GGmk3
Sure you’re right but it’s not going to be privatised.

So, Move along here. Nothing to see.

My politics differ greatly from you think.

My opinion.You don't have to agree with me. I'm not asking/telling anyone to agree with me, so think what you like.

I've probably said what a lot of others would have said but are too scared to air their views-----for very obvious reasons, like a volley from the same argumentative and abusive-type posters on here who delight in singling out anyone whose views differ from theirs.

Anecdotal update on part of the health service in Wales:

Elderly patient goes for dialysis, nurse finds her line is dislodged, tells her it must be reinserted under anaesthetic at another hospital, as she could bleed to death so patient told!) she must go by ambulance. Four hours later still no ambulance and the unit is about to close, so patient is sent by taxi without any escort. Taxi driver does not know his way, patient has to direct him. He dumps her at the door of the hospital, luckily someone comes to the rescue with a wheelchair.

Bluebelle, yes, my emergency treatment in Australia was free as they have a reciprocal arrangement with the UK for emergency treatment. (As growstuff has said).
It was not a stay in hospital, it was a visit to A&E, likewise DH on another occasion. No doubt if it had meant further treatment I would have had to use my travel insurance.

Grany I was just thinking about that film ! I aim to see it. I have been a great admirer of JP for decades.

The NHS is up for sale

We now literally have just a handful of NON ESTABLISHMENT investigative journalists left. Pilger is amongst that little handful. His film about “THE DIRTY WAR ON THE NHS” is showing on the 1st of December .Lets Honour this mans journalism by ensuring everyone knows about it

On 1 Dec, the new John Pilger film, 'The Dirty War on the NHS', will be released in UK cinemas. Pilger investigates the long & often secret campaign to dismantle the UK's pioneering NHS and privatise it off 'by stealth'. Watch the trailer below. thedirtywaronnhs.com

What do you suppose life-savings are for?

It is not that you simply don't seem to understand other people's lives but that you choose not to and have no empathy when you are told about them that makes me think you can never be anything other than a Tory in your principles whether you vote or not.

The polishing of your own halo and the disdain you show to those who you lump together when describing a group by something that the majority of that group cannot control should be treated with the contempt you show to others.

One in four adults has no savings, a study has found. Sky-high monthly outgoings and attempts to clear [the] substantial debt before putting money away regularly emerged as the main reasons.

Despite not being able to find money to put away more than half said they wished they could save cash.

When people chose not to think further than their own well-being others will always suffer. I imagine that you got your 25% of women, etc., from the DM as that filthy rag is the only one that published anything near it but it seems you didn't bother to read even what they actually say.

Yes, 25% is used in the headline but they say "of the richest women" not millionaires - no mention of millionaires in fact. And what do these "richest women" earn? They "have an annual disposable income of £37,000".

Yes, this is more than the current median income of £29,400 but if the person is living in one of our cities, particularly London, they will be finding it very hard to save that is assuming they can continue in there jobs until the new pension age.

It also says, trying to con the person who will not check these things, that half of "these women" have "£50,000 of wealth stored in pensions, ..." Does this mean they are rich in your eyes? What it actually means is they may be able to draw a personal pension of about £2,500 while they wait for their state pension.

Why do you never query what you read? Why do you just assume that if it agrees with your own unconscious bias it must be right? People who can't be bothered to find out the truth certainly need not polish their halos. They vote in the wicked and allow them to do wicked things on their behalf.

Well said GillT57! I'm busy for the rest of the afternoon, but I think I should read these documents issued by the Labour Party, so that I can make up my own mind.

Saving up for surgery (or other treatment) implies that people have disposable cash. There are obviously people who don't realise that many people (of all ages) have to count every penny - and some who still don't have enough to pay for basics.

Ellenvannin I cannot type on here just what I think about what you have posted because I would likely be kicked off GN, but suffice it to say, your posts show a remarkable lack of humanity, kindness or understanding, your comments to others on here have been quite vile. Also, a few people need to stop deliberately misunderstanding what Corbyn has said or not said. He provided documents which show that there have been discussions regarding selling off/privatising/using outside providers for areas of the NHS. Now, this seriously concerns me, and those of you who think this is nonsense but that everything Johnson tells you is the truth...well, you really need to take a good look at yourselves. The silly comments about people saving up for surgery show a complete inability to comprehend other people's situation and can I remind you Ellenvannin that the cherry picking private medical sector does not provide A & E or intensive care so only those who are fit enough to have surgery without possible need for ITU can qualify to be ripped off for their hip replacements. I am now going out for the afternoon and hopefully will spend time ( at a charity function) with people who have some milk of human kindness in them.

It wasn't altogether free in Australia when I had treatment as because I had an ongoing problem with high blood-pressure I had to register with medicare nd was given a card to use. Whatever treatment costs were incurred they were subsidised and on production of my card I got a percentage back of what I'd originally paid. Prescriptions of course weren't free as I was under 60 but the cost was twice that of the UK.

I could have received my money back through the insurance policy, but I didn't bother.

Callistemon A little bit of Googling suggests that Australia has a reciprocal healthcare arrangement with the UK, so if you were just visiting Australia, basic healthcare should have been free (unless I've misunderstood).

The same article claims that dental care (even for children) isn't covered by Medicare.

It also says that pensioners have to pay for Medicare, unless they have a very low income.

Also …

Australia has a younger population than the UK, so it doesn't cost so much to treat people in total. However, it's ageing and there are concerns that the Medicare levy will have to be increased.

Granny23, I said nothing of the sort.I suggest you read the post properly and stop embellishing what I've said just to make trouble.

What do you suppose life-savings are for ? Don't most who have savings offer to pay for a quicker service from the NHS ? I know a few who've used theirs to be fast-tracked. It's not all about expensive holidays and fripperies.
Some have paid for more up-market care in a care home rather than the bog-standard.

It's those who have no savings that should be allowed free NHS and not those who are already well off enough to pay.

It was enough for me to read about 25% of WASPI individuals are millionaires but still awaiting yet more in the way of compensation !!

EllanVannin would appear to wish I were dead! Nice!

Tooting I'm not talking about the sourcing of drugs and equipment or even staff. I'm talking about the outsourcing of many services, such as mental health, and GP services by a number of companies. The latter, in particular, is skimming off resources from the NHS by only treating patients without chronic conditions but taking the fees. The NHS gets left to pick up the chronically ill and old, who are much more expensive to treat.

Well, lucky you EllanVannin. In other words, you don't really have a clue how the NHS operates.

*callistemon’ pretty sure your ‘free’ treatment in Australia is covered by your insurance not free My friend was taken Ill ‘down under’ and even had to pay back the ambulance ride

WHAT???? EllenVanna are you really suggesting that those who cannot afford to pay should not be treated so that those who can pay will have better service, quicker appointments, lovely empty beds waiting for a paying customer?

You say you would be "willing" to pay" - can't you see that their are millions who cannot "afford" to pay. Not scroungers but those who are hit perhaps with a double whammy, eg 2 or more very ill people in one family, a child born with a progressive life shortening condition?

And, there is still the elephant in the room - the inequity of those (like us) who are using their life savings to fund care because my DH has the disease called Dementia, rather than another terminal disease such as an untreatable cancer.

Corbyn has only told the truth about the NHS what faults he’s got I don’t know I know he has been defiled by the Tories propaganda and downright lies to turn the country into fear of him and the Labour Party
The Tories and the mega rich media are going to totally ruin the country and the nHS
Well they have already do you realise how much of the NHs has been tended out to private companies since the Tories got into government it’s been chipped and chipped away at most people don’t realise because they still use the NHS logo
It’s ruined I don’t know how any country could come back from this we are living a nightmare

EV exactly the same happened to me, can't remember who was in government at the time, it was later than that.

DGS

Children don't get free dental treatment either.
DFS is going to need a brace which is going to cost a lot!

I have received free emergency treatment in Australia; prompt and very good.

Yes, Australia has people going to A&E because they can’t get GP appointments. And they have to pay for appointments. And children don’t get free prescriptions.
It’s not all sunshine over there.

When I married in the late 50's I was put on reduced NI---because I was married and didn't have a choice as I remember thrashing this out with some " job's worth " idiot that it was totally unfair. My NI number and tax number changed at that point. I had superannuation which " disappeared " and because I was carrying a different NI number nobody at the time could work anything out, so I'd been well and truly fleeced by the government at the time.

Surprise surprise, it was a Conservative government at the time with the same unease then, after Anthony Eden as it is at present with the worst Labour leader waiting in the wings---Harold MacMillan. Hence the cock-up in government departments.