Gransnet forums

News & politics

Con merchants

(86 Posts)
GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 09:32:13

I have realised, after yet another recorded message designed to frighten me into parting with my money and any sense of self-worth, that this is the modern day Conservative Party. People don't care any more that Boris is lying. When my mother was scammed she simply would not believe she was being lied to. The ERG Tories know this.

Just like the man asking about your computer knows that if he presses the right buttons you will go along with him the ERG Conservative believes if they frighten you with childish views of monsters (Jeremy Corbyn and the LP in g his instance) some will cower in the corner and hand over their future to these lying con men.

If they say the right things and soothe the voters by repeating the voters style back at them, in this case with Islamophobia and nativist commitment, just like the scam romance some will believe they understand them and care.

Sadly, many who are scammed don't believe it until the are robed and humiliated and I'm afraid, very afraid, that this is exactly what those voting ERG Tory voters will do. Then they will ask why someone didn't stop them.

Urmstongran Fri 29-Nov-19 09:44:47

Pots & kettles GGmk3 as what about JC frightening everybody about the NHS?

‘Can you imagine having to pay a five figure sum for your cancer treatment? Or huge sums to have your baby delivered?’

What rot.

Dinahmo Fri 29-Nov-19 10:21:05

I suggest that he was pointing out how much this things cost.

We live in France and a few years ago my husband suffered terrible pains which suggested he might be having a heart attack. I called the emergency services and a doctor arrived in less than 15 minutes. Her ecg machine showed his heart was OK but he was obviously in pain. A few minutes later the paramedics arrived with a larger machine - still nothing wrong. However they decided that they should take him to hospital and so the pompiers arrived. Here they are the people who take emergency patients to hospital. In the early hours of the morning a doctor realised that he had pericarditis and was treated accordingly. Some weeks later we received a bill for 4000 euros to show the cost of the intervention. We didn't have to pay it.

An English neighbour with breast cancer told me that her treatment was made specifically for her and had a very short shelf life. She was told that a percentage of patients don't turn up for their treatment at all.

Whether it's missed appointments with a doctor or specialist nurse right through to major illnesses, don't you think that it's a good idea that we know how much we are costing the NHS?

I'm not at all suggesting that this information should be used to intimidate or frighten anyone but we do tend to take the NHS for granted. Maybe it's time that we shouldn't.

Septimia Fri 29-Nov-19 10:30:48

I know that you have to declare to the DWP if you're in hospital for any length of time so that they can reduce your pension accordingly.

However, most of us could afford to make a contribution to our board and lodging when in hospital. Even if it was only a small amount for those who could afford it, it might make a difference to NHS finances. Medical treatment would still be free.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 10:43:25

Pots & kettles GGmk3 as what about JC frightening everybody about the NHS?

But that is what would happen if it was privatised UG. Are you saying that if it is privatised it will still be free?

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 10:46:18

I'm a bit confused here.

What was this recorded message? I'm assuming it was some unsolicited message with some kind of Tory propaganda (but could be wrong).

Where was there any mention of the cost of cancer treatment?

PS. I suspect the cost of extra admin staff to work out board and lodging in hospital, including enforcing payment, might exceed the cost of providing it. It would also lead to a string of complaints from people who spent time on a trolley in a corridor or an old, uncomfortable bed in a noisy ward and didn't eat the food provided.

lemongrove Fri 29-Nov-19 10:47:26

Exactly Urmston 👍🏻
I think what Corbyn sent out as a frightener (NHS) was despicable....the worst yet from any side!
Con? Scam? Yes, it was certainly those.

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 10:53:26

I haven't a clue what Corbyn has sent out as a frightener about the NHS. I base my experience of the NHS as a patient and talking to people involved with the NHS at all levels and roles.

I can read published statistics for myself and you'd have to be living under a rock not to realise how different parts of the NHS are being outsourced to private providers. US providers and Trump have said in public that they're interested in having a greater involvement. I wouldn't trust any reassurances from Johnson or his puppet Hancock.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:02:08

Septimia what disposable income do you think people have? You are right that in the case of a pensioner pensions are, after a short period, and let's say it how it is, not "adjusted" but decreased. During this time the bills on your home and the possible living costs of a partner are still having to be paid.

If fact, Pensioners are the only people who, at this point in time, are charged a "board and lodging". I remember my father being terrified of staying in the hospital for too long and that this would kick in and they had small work pensions to help. The additional stress of losing this money can be huge. I think it is iniquitous.

In the period 2015/16 to 2017/18, single pensioners in the UK had an average income of £216 per week. That is £11,232 and it is average. Older pensioners averages are lower than younger ones and they are the most likely to be in a hospital. Those who only have the state pension only should not be getting less than £8,767 and you want to charge them out of this?

EllanVannin Fri 29-Nov-19 11:03:10

A means-tested health system ? Why not ?
Perhaps our hospitals wouldn't then be bursting at the seams !

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:04:07

So to you LG, a scam is someone telling the truth while to others it is someone telling a lie.

I am not surprised you are in favour of ERG Toryism in that case.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:07:59

EllanVannin I find that sort of comment from those who have benefited from the NHS simply wicked.

We do have a means-tested health system. You just want to change the why of means-testing from free at the point of need paid for by taxation to one which scares the poor away from the hospital. Wicked.

lemongrove Fri 29-Nov-19 11:08:50

I suggest that all GNers go and read what Corbyn sent out as a frightener.
The NHS isn’t up for sale and blatant lies and scaremongering about health is the worst dirty tricks yet in any GE.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:09:02

way not why

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:09:48

I suggest that all GNers go and read what Corbyn sent out as a frightener.

And the link to this is ... where?

EllanVannin Fri 29-Nov-19 11:10:15

Medicare such as in Australia. Free or subsidised system which is similar to a means-tested system.
Something has to give as we can't continue with a system where staff are extremely overworked and also leaving in their droves. How soul-destroying must it feel for them ?

EllanVannin Fri 29-Nov-19 11:14:50

GracesGran, " wicked ?". Why ? when people like you can well afford to pay for whatever treatment you receive ? You're typical of those who would do the most complaining !

The whole idea of means-testing is just that !!

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:15:35

If you are talking about the unredacted NHS papers, they are not written by Jeremy Corbyn but are records of meetings of the government ministers with USA negotiators.

Are you saying Corbyn wrote them? Are you saying that the USA does not wants everything on the table as these papers show and as Mr Johnson tried to con us was not being discussed?

Just what are you accusing the leader of the opposition of that uses the proof of what was discussed in these meetings between the government and the USA?

Your logic seems to be lacking somewhere.

Callistemon Fri 29-Nov-19 11:25:20

Outsourcing does not equal paying for treatment.

Services have been out-sourced by both Tory and Labour Governmenrs.
The NHS is still free at the point of delivery.

Very little is outsourced in Wales under Labour but the waiting lists are longer than those in England and some patients have been sent to privately run clinics on England as Wales cannot cope. Free to the patients, iof course - free at the point of delivery.

Others in Wales who can afford it have been forced to go privately rather than wait in pain for over two years.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:25:44

GracesGran, " wicked ?". Why ? when people like you can well afford to pay for whatever treatment you receive ? You're typical of those who would do the most complaining!

How on earth can you think you know that? You are so extremely rude to even go there.

The whole idea of means-testing is just that!!

And that is exactly what we have. Those who can afford to pay more pay it through their taxes. Your system is just an attempt to frighten people into not using the services because they will not know what they will be charged. They know what they are taxed. It is iniquitous that people who are on a minimum wage or less do not get any treatment because of fear while the rich can buy health and long-life. and a "poor free environment" while they get it or, as you say, Perhaps our hospitals wouldn't then be bursting at the seams!

That's your caring Tory for you. You will obviously vote for Boris as you actually want to destroy the fundamentals of the NHS. I call that immoral. You probably call it getting the rich a bit more wealth.

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 11:25:49

Of course the NHS is up for sale!! It's up for sale now and has been for some time. It's already being gradually sold off. Read any letters you receive with a NHS logo and they should tell you who is actually providing the service. Read up about who is providing mental health or out-of-hours, etc etc services in your area. The chances they've already been outsourced/privatised. Speak to anybody involved with the NHS and, if they're being honest, they'll tell you how much is already being provided by private companies. Read up about the private GP services being offered in many areas. The list just goes on and on. Leaving the EU will certainly mean current restrictions are made more flexible.

I'm not going to read whatever Labour issued because I've already read about it. I know there was a scaremongering element to it, but I also know that there were more than a few grains of truth. If I were to read it, I'd only go back to sources and check them, which I've already done.

Callistemon Fri 29-Nov-19 11:26:21

Please e cuse typos.
This device has a mind of it's own.
its its its

Callistemon Fri 29-Nov-19 11:29:56

growstuff, yes
PFIs, beloved of the last Labour Government, were the epitome of outsourcing.

You are still paying the price but still manage to do better than Wales which has none.

Nonnie Fri 29-Nov-19 11:32:27

What I find difficult is that people believe it all. Even after so much has been exposed, so much talk of lies and false news. Why don't people see through it?

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:37:43

How soul-destroying must it feel for them?

No it is not soul-destroying for those who can pay. We now know why you will vote for Boris and his Australian points system and Australian health system. They are absolutely perfect of course. No Australian ever complains about them. hmm You have been on the receiving end of them and know this to be true?

You simply do not want the next generation to have what you had all your life. It's not the Australian system he wants with its own intrinsic issues but the far harsher American one where 66.5 per cent of all bankruptcies are tied to medical issues. I just hope karma actually exists and those who vote for this are on the receiving end of its difficulties.

I could ask my son to explain all those difficulties and pass that insight on to you - he and his family are Australian. Or my brother who is now extremely ill and is American. But why should I waste my someone who appears not to care a fig for others?