Con merchants

There is a difference between being up for sale and open for business. NHS buying power is huge, where do you think we get drugs, equipment, cleaning products, uniforms, hospital meals all the minuatiae that a public service needs. LP are scare mongering it's any easy slogan to chant and put on placard and take up in righteous protest. NHS has to served on the most cost effective way so it can remain free at the point of use. If NHS patients can benefit from cheaper generic drugs (which are cheaper in US) then why not? Are we as queasy about supplies coming from other countries. The problem with NHS is that its emotionalised, plays on fears. Rational thought and solutions are required, more trained staff, leverage purchasing power, and have efficient management. The service is patchy areas of excellence, others less so. Above all take it out of the hands of politicians

Soul destroying for hospital staff ! ( rolls eyes ) stop being so quick with your nastiness, or is it only YOUR opinion that counts ??

I'm voiding my ballot paper !

I've been on the receiving end of paid treatment in Oz.

I paid into BUPA all my working life.

I've paid for a private room for a 2 and half day stay.

I'd willingly pay for a GP consultation if I had to do.

Australia have a free system also but guess what ? it's not running as smoothly as they'd like because staff are inundated/overworked-----because it's free !!

But we do not know it was LP propaganda Sussexborn as you are neither showing us or referencing it. For all, we know you could be a member of the ERG Tories or a Russian bot and your post could be propaganda. I like to think you are not so could you let us see what you are calling "propaganda" is just that or if you yet again being conned by the Tories and not believing the simple truth.

Maybe they can't afford eye tests Nonnie

No, outsourcing does not equate with paying for treatment, but you really have been lucky if you haven't realised that the service provided by the NHS has deteriorated over the last decade. Much of that is because part of a limited budget is going to shareholders. Have you not read about the scandals involving privatised ambulance services or care homes? Do you really have no idea what has happened to mental health services?

Good thought growstuff.

I had the same experience with Labour Party propaganda appearing in my email and Facebook despite clicking on no political party information. They sneak in under the radar. Just delete as soon as you see the heading.

How about getting pensioners to pay reduced National Insurance Contributions EllanVannin rather than not paying any? That would be means testing and the system would already be in place.

Something has to give as we can't continue with a system where staff are extremely overworked and also leaving in their droves.

Why do you think they underfunded it? It was to convince you of just the above. Even Johnson is now saying he was nothing to do with the austerity we had and there was no need for it. It was political, not economic.

But you believe the lies. Why? Because you think you and yours will be better off if others are worse off? What kind of morality is that?

I agree with you about PFIs Callistemon but I don't see how they're a justification for more outsourcing.

What experience of means testing to you have EllanVannin? Do you actually know how it works in practice? Do you realise that there are "cliff edges" where those just above thresholds pay considerably more for services than those just below? Are you aware how much admin is involved in administering means testing?

I already pay for diabetic testing strips and some other medications, which are not funded by the NHS. I also pay for glasses and dental treatment. I can usually afford them, but sometimes I can't because they're a lower priority than my rent, council tax, utility bills and food. I actually need new glasses at the moment, but I'm putting off getting them until the New Year because I can't afford them.

At what level do you think people should pay for medical treatment and would there be a cap? Financially, I live on a knife edge and being forced to pay even a couple of hundred pounds would be a problem. I read social media diabetes groups with many American posters and I can see for myself that their treatment is affected by cost. Quite simply, they cannot afford the tests and medications, which I receive for free - and that's even before I start on the cost of treating the heart attack I had.

Many others are in a similar financial situation.

How soul-destroying must it feel for them?

No it is not soul-destroying for those who can pay. We now know why you will vote for Boris and his Australian points system and Australian health system. They are absolutely perfect of course. No Australian ever complains about them. You have been on the receiving end of them and know this to be true?

You simply do not want the next generation to have what you had all your life. It's not the Australian system he wants with its own intrinsic issues but the far harsher American one where 66.5 per cent of all bankruptcies are tied to medical issues. I just hope karma actually exists and those who vote for this are on the receiving end of its difficulties.

I could ask my son to explain all those difficulties and pass that insight on to you - he and his family are Australian. Or my brother who is now extremely ill and is American. But why should I waste my someone who appears not to care a fig for others?

What I find difficult is that people believe it all. Even after so much has been exposed, so much talk of lies and false news. Why don't people see through it?

growstuff, yes
PFIs, beloved of the last Labour Government, were the epitome of outsourcing.

You are still paying the price but still manage to do better than Wales which has none.

Please e cuse typos.
This device has a mind of it's own.
its its its

Of course the NHS is up for sale!! It's up for sale now and has been for some time. It's already being gradually sold off. Read any letters you receive with a NHS logo and they should tell you who is actually providing the service. Read up about who is providing mental health or out-of-hours, etc etc services in your area. The chances they've already been outsourced/privatised. Speak to anybody involved with the NHS and, if they're being honest, they'll tell you how much is already being provided by private companies. Read up about the private GP services being offered in many areas. The list just goes on and on. Leaving the EU will certainly mean current restrictions are made more flexible.

I'm not going to read whatever Labour issued because I've already read about it. I know there was a scaremongering element to it, but I also know that there were more than a few grains of truth. If I were to read it, I'd only go back to sources and check them, which I've already done.

GracesGran, " wicked ?". Why ? when people like you can well afford to pay for whatever treatment you receive ? You're typical of those who would do the most complaining!

How on earth can you think you know that? You are so extremely rude to even go there.

The whole idea of means-testing is just that!!

And that is exactly what we have. Those who can afford to pay more pay it through their taxes. Your system is just an attempt to frighten people into not using the services because they will not know what they will be charged. They know what they are taxed. It is iniquitous that people who are on a minimum wage or less do not get any treatment because of fear while the rich can buy health and long-life. and a "poor free environment" while they get it or, as you say, Perhaps our hospitals wouldn't then be bursting at the seams!

That's your caring Tory for you. You will obviously vote for Boris as you actually want to destroy the fundamentals of the NHS. I call that immoral. You probably call it getting the rich a bit more wealth.

Outsourcing does not equal paying for treatment.

Services have been out-sourced by both Tory and Labour Governmenrs.
The NHS is still free at the point of delivery.

Very little is outsourced in Wales under Labour but the waiting lists are longer than those in England and some patients have been sent to privately run clinics on England as Wales cannot cope. Free to the patients, iof course - free at the point of delivery.

Others in Wales who can afford it have been forced to go privately rather than wait in pain for over two years.

If you are talking about the unredacted NHS papers, they are not written by Jeremy Corbyn but are records of meetings of the government ministers with USA negotiators.

Are you saying Corbyn wrote them? Are you saying that the USA does not wants everything on the table as these papers show and as Mr Johnson tried to con us was not being discussed?

Just what are you accusing the leader of the opposition of that uses the proof of what was discussed in these meetings between the government and the USA?

Your logic seems to be lacking somewhere.

GracesGran, " wicked ?". Why ? when people like you can well afford to pay for whatever treatment you receive ? You're typical of those who would do the most complaining !

The whole idea of means-testing is just that !!

Medicare such as in Australia. Free or subsidised system which is similar to a means-tested system.
Something has to give as we can't continue with a system where staff are extremely overworked and also leaving in their droves. How soul-destroying must it feel for them ?

I suggest that all GNers go and read what Corbyn sent out as a frightener.

And the link to this is ... where?

way not why

I suggest that all GNers go and read what Corbyn sent out as a frightener.
The NHS isn’t up for sale and blatant lies and scaremongering about health is the worst dirty tricks yet in any GE.

EllanVannin I find that sort of comment from those who have benefited from the NHS simply wicked.

We do have a means-tested health system. You just want to change the why of means-testing from free at the point of need paid for by taxation to one which scares the poor away from the hospital. Wicked.