Everything is wrong in this country

The main reason both poverty and destitution have risen over the last five years is because working age benefits have been frozen, Local Housing Allowance doesn't cover rents in most areas and the eligibility for Universal Credit means that most working people can't claim it.

It looks as though the journalist didn't understand the difference between poverty and destitution. It's a very fine line. Destitution is more serious because it's long term and there will almost certainly be reasons why it's almost impossible to escape. Poverty is also serious and means people probably don't have enough money for basics, but can be temporary - possibly caused by unemployment or serious illness.

There are other reports showing that the majority of people experiencing poverty have, at some point in their lives, contributed to the system via income tax and national insurance. National insurance was originally introduced to support people in emergencies such as unemployment, so they are perfectly entitled to benefits. In fact, UK unemployment benefits are much lower than some other countries such as Germany.

Thank you for that growstuff I took my figures from the guardian whilst eating breakfast?

Susiewakie It is not true that all children born in the UK automatically receive British passports. Goodness why your daughter thinks that.

You could be partly correct Chewbacca. The most recent JRF report on poverty states that 1.5 million are destitute, while 4.1 million live in poverty. Destitution is classified as long-term and persistent poverty.

These are the headlines from the December 2018 report:

Child poverty has been rising since 2011/12;
4.1 million children are living in poverty, a rise of 500,000 in the last five years;
Four million workers are living in poverty –a rise of more than half a million over five years; and
In-work poverty has been rising even faster than employment, driven almost entirely by increasing poverty among working parents.

You can read a download the full report here:

www.jrf.org.uk/report/uk-poverty-2018

Davidhs Are you aware that the freezing of Local Housing Allowance means that rent is hardly ever covered by housing benefit? Furthermore, the threshold for Universal Credit also means that virtually nobody employed and being paid living wage, especially if living in a couple, is eligible. That's true for everybody - UK nationals and immigrants. That's why the majority of families in poverty have at least one person in work. The idea that immigrants are claiming millions in benefits really is not true.

In 2019 we have 4000000 people classed as destitute.

Could you provide the source for that please Whitewave? I've double checked and can only find the statistics from You.Gov which states 1.5 million on their last forecast, (June 2018) which, whilst an appalling number, is significantly less than your information. Can you confirm where you obtained your stats please?

Pre-2012 academics were hard pushed to find anyone classed as destitute, except perhaps the odd immigrant who did not qualify for welfare.

In 2019 we have 4000000 people classed as destitute.

What does that mean? What is the definition of destitute the academics use?

It means a FAMILY living on £140 per week

Think of it. Not one person but a whole little family.

You can’t even begin to do a budget here.

The report that growstuff posted was in fact over 4 yrs old, since that time the regulations are even tighter, bearing in mind that most migrants are doing low paid work families are likely to be claiming tax credits because housing costs are so high.

Benefits - it's a myth that anyone can get benefits easily, whether they're EU nationals or British citizens. The process is so complicated and unforgiving, its designed to refuse even those most in need.

My DD works in a govt dept and yes if not working non EU folks have to wait 2 years for benefits .But current EU folks can get benefits when asked out of interest why UK they generally say we give benefit like rest of Eu but we also give healthcare do can bring relatives over for treatment and pay the rent with free education and bonus we give any kids born here a UK passport .Also massive amount of men bring one school age child as once in school they can appeal to stay ! Quite a eye opener

Meanwhile, I’ve just read ( not reported in the r w media) that Dominic Raab has sent a bill of £2k to each of the families of the 39 Vietnamese who died in theEssex lorry for the return of their bodies. All heart those Tories.

Most of the people slinging terms around like Marxist or Stalinist haven’t even read the Enid Blyton version of political theory. If any calls St Nigel or someone like Rees Mogg “fascist ” they would throw their hands up in horror.

Growstuff - thanks for posting that link regarding benefits - a friend of ours worked in our local Job Centre and told us how difficult it was for immigrants to get benefits if they weren't working - no matter how often I repeated it, some people just decided not to believe me!

Which country do you live in yattypung?

Factcheck: Migration and benefits

fullfact.org/immigration/migration-and-welfare-benefits/

Which benefits?

Because they get benefits they can’t get in other countries.

You must be joking grannygravy13. Don’t think you could have lived anywhere else but the UK

It's scary if you feel you're one of the people who would lose out in a more equal society, but the Labour Party isn't Marxist, so I guess it's being used for scare-mongering.

I self-identified as a Marxist for about six weeks when I was 19 because I thought it was cool. I even bought a book, but I was a bit intimidated by the big words, so I gave up. I can't honestly say I understood much about it and my guess is that most people who fear Marxism now don't really understand it.

In the last few years, I've become much more interested in politics. I don't think it's cool any more to be a Marxist (I'm not), but I understand much more about Marx. I hadn't realised how innovative his thinking was and how much he's been misunderstood. Marx probably wouldn't even recognise some of what is today labelled as Marxism.

Too true, let's follow the press and media and scare everyone with the bogeymen - Corbyn and McDonell - that's enough isn't it?

You're surely not expecting an answer are you, grannypauline?

I'm not expecting anyone to enlighten me as to what is 'normal Labour'.

'Never explain' is the watchword on Gnet...

What is wrong with Marxism or is it just a scary notion?

Compulsory euthanasia?

....most of the immigrants were young and so had little need of healthcare. The problem, he said, was the aging population.
But the immigrants are also ageing and in not too many years they will be needing more medical care.....so let's bring in more immigrants to look after them.
Can you see where this is leading?