Everything is wrong in this country

As far as Labour is concerned, Maremia, what is 'normal'?

What is it that all these Labour bods who don't like Corbyn actually want to achieve as far as the country is concerned?

Mcrc; it just goes to show how the world views a country by the person they choose to lead it, which is unfair for all those that didn't vote for that person....

Whitewavemark2 I totally agree with everything you said.

Same in Australia

Jeremy Corbyn will be ditched by his party very soon, and Labour will get back to normal.

That's what scares me. John McDonnell, a self proclaimed Marxist is wait in impatiently in the wings

Seriously Folks, you think it's a good idea to vote for a serial liar, who cares about no-one but himself, and can't wait to sell the NHS to Trump? Jeremy Corbyn will be ditched by his party very soon, and Labour will get back to normal. Please, play the long game, and don't saddle us with the extreme right wingers in charge of the Tory Party just now.

Opal we are not talking about 'travelling' as in 'for holidays. It is about people from a group of friendly nations being able to go and look for work for 3 months - without tons of paperwork. The fact is, with EU rules, the 3 months is the rules. For all sorts of reasons, which had nothing to do with the EU- the UK CHOSE not to enforce it.

When I came to work in the UK in 1970, pre EU - I had to have a post in place, with a work permit, and the firm wanting to employ me had to go through the hoops to show that they could not employ a local, but had to bring me in. I was so lucky as I knew the right people, with long arms- who were gently pressured to do all that for me. Exceptional and very un-usual. When we fell in love, the only way we could be together, was to get married- or I could not have stayed in the UK after my contract expired, I was just 19. Again how lucky we are that we are still together 49 years later.

I have, on occasion, voted conservative, but came from a very working class background - the tenement with only two rooms and outside toilet. I have never inherited money, had a second home anywhere nor have had children or grandchildren at private school. We run one car and have one holiday per year, if that. I don't shop at Waitrose either! I usually let contentious posts wash over me, but I'm pretty taken aback by the generalisations of anniezzz09. I don't think I'm self righteous.

especially as it will help us secure our borders.

How will that make them any more secure than they are now?

It's not as though you can travel to Europe, or return from Europe now without passport checks; which are applied to all travellers, whatever their nationality. Last few times we've come back from France the queues for passport checks at Portsmouth have been hideous.

What extra nightmares have border control got in store for us in the name of 'securing our borders' post Brexit?

It's not just about going on holiday, either. It's about the freedom to work and settle in another EU country with no bureaucratic input at all.

And just who are we 'securing our borders' against?

It's like going back to the Dark Ages...

Wait. I only thought my country (US) was evil and corrupt. And it is not! Every little thing is under a microscope and most of it is wrong. We're not all a bunch of racist, white privilege people. I think your news sounds a lot like ours-hysterical and...fake.

The problem with the health service is not migrants, it is us!
The migrants in hospitals are treating patients, go into any surgery or outpatients you will see mainly 60 yr olds plus wanting treatment. If migrants don’t come to the UK there will be a real problem because the unemployed either can’t or won’t do the work.
The extra 50,000 nurses vaunted, is just pie in the sky, that’s not going to happen, they might find that number of clinical assistants, skilled nurses, no way.
The truth is NHS demand is unlimited and there is always going to be some who don’t get the treatment they want, when they want it. The health service is staffed by humans, who make errors so there are always going to be mistakes made. We all want a perfect system but we need to pay much more to get anywhere near that.

The point I was making was that we will still be able to travel wherever we want to go, as long as we have a passport, and in some cases visas, although as per the above post, that may not be necessary anyway for EU countries. I really don't see why that should be a problem, especially as it will help us secure our borders.

Phoebes
The eu council and parliament have stated ( as long as it's reciprocal) there will be visa free travel for countries outside the scengen area. 90 days in any 180.

Opal, that is not traveling freely without borders. Which is what Pheobes said she wanted. Why change the parameters and then say it’s the same thing? ??‍♀️

You will still be able to travel freely Phoebes, but you may need to show your passport, and in some cases may need a visa - in exactly the same way as you do to visit any other part of the world. Why should travelling in the EU be any different? And if by introducing this measure we are better able to protect our borders and control immigration, then it's a small inconvenience and a price well worth paying.

Yggdrasil-I would like to point out that the reason I voted to remain was nothing to do with the Tory government, but rather because I feel that we are stronger if we are together rather than being out on our own and isolated.
I am not just British (Welsh), I am European and I want to remain that way. I have family in Denmark, Greece and Germany and I want to be able to continue to travel freely without borders.

Chestnut Around the time of the referendum i saw a programme about a town on the east coast - one that had several overseas workers in agriculture. The locals were complaining about access to the health system. A doctor from the local health centre responded that most of the immigrants were young and so had little need of healthcare. The problem, he said, was the aging population.

The fact is, we are an aging population and if we survive the 3 score years and 10 we are likely to need health care more frequently as our bodies start to deteriorate. One could of course blame the NHS for looking after us so well when we were young and for keeping us alive now.

JenniferEccles Before you comment further on the welfare state I suggest you watch watch Ken Loache's film "I am Daniel Blake" which is a dire indictment of today's benefits system.

3Nanny6 You're a little late in complaining about foreigners driving 4 x4s. When I lived in London us residents were always complaining about the Chelsea Tractors (and I lived in Brixton) back in the 80s. Except they were called Range Rovers then.

The illegal immigrants that come here come because English is the only other language that they speak, if they do know another language.

We Brits are a mongrel nation. Most of us have forebears from other countries somewhere in our ancestry so it is a little unwise for people to complain about immigrants.

Many of the people whom Tony Blair "let in" are working in the care system, such as it is now. My B in Law had a Polish care worker who came once a week to give some respite to my S in Law. He has lived in the UK for nearly 20 years and was horrified when my S in Law said she had voted to leave. "Oh" she said, "I didn't mean you". His care home was owned and staffed by foreigners - Spanish.

your opinion- and fair enough. But who are you to decide?

jura2 - varian has repeated the same 'stop Brexit' mantra about a thousand times on other threads. It doesn't add anything to the discussion on this thread which was getting along very nicely without it.

Everything that WWM2 wrote in her original thread is correct. The country is in a far worse state than it has been for m any years. The Tory government are responsible for this and their attitude during the first 2 years after the referendum has made things worse.

David Davis turned up at the Brexit negotiations with just a piece of paper because everything was in his head. (Which of course it wasn't).

May drew her red lines which were set in stone.

Deadlines have been and gone.

Since the referendum very little legislation has been dealt with that's not Brexit related. IMO Varian is accurate in her statements.

how very rude. If it is relevant- she has every right to mention it.

varian - this is not a thread about Brexit. You have pushed the 'stop Brexit' mantra on every other thread, leave this one alone. It's just getting so tedious. There are numerous other threads where you can bang on about it.