Victoria Roberts

None of them come out well do they? I found Victoria passingly plausible (and there was the evidence from other girls) and I think that PA should account for himself by speaking to the FBI especially as he has nothing to hide!
On the other hand, why would he want to do that?

She kept the photo and sold it for $160,000 TBH I don't know what to make of any of this but is it really plausible you would keep and then sell a photo of the person you're now making accusations against?

whoops sorry Virginia.

You would if you thought that perhaps one day, it might be worth a tidy sum!!

Just another way of thinking of this awful case.

Andrew is not the brightest coin in the mint. Until Epstein was charged and sentenced he quite possible had sex with Virginia and others but would think they were eager to jump into bed with him. I doubt they were dragged screaming into a bedroom.

When Epstein was charged he may have had the biggest panic attack imaginable. Went to visit Epstein to make sure
his name wouldn’t be brought into it

Yes ? No ?

If PA slept with this woman in the UK and she was 17 at the time. She was, in this country, over the age of consent.

I make no comment on the rest of the story .I have not seen the interviews with either of the protagionists or followed the story in any detail.

Do we know how GM found these girls and persuaded them to participate? I just think that as a teenager I would have told her where to go. She must have thought they were suitable types of girls, so what was her criteria? Some teenage girls are very precocious while others are shy, but the girls required for this type of work must have come across as fairly confident. So were they completely innocent victims or older than their years and maybe already sexually active? The young lady in the PA photo certainly doesn't look unhappy, in fact she looks rather excited by it all.

Well, Quite!!

I haven't seen the interview yet and of course some of these girls may have been vulnerable for whatever reason but it's hard to know what they were like back then, so many years ago. As I said, it's all 'he said' and 'she said' which is not concrete evidence.

Reading these threads about Prince Andrew has made me realise just how difficult it must be for a person to come forward and say they have been abused by someone who is in a position of power. People falling over themselves to find a reason for disbelief and find an ulterior motive. No wonder victims keep quiet for years when they see how others are treated after coming forward.

Victims keep quiet regardless of people of power or not.

We know very little about VG other than that she alleges she was sexually abused at 7 and developed emotional/psychological problems, became a run away. She was living with her father at 15 when G Maxwell picked her up outside her high school, introduced her to JEpstein and said they'd train her to be a massage therapist. I saw a recent interview with her father in which he said he was shown around JE's home and felt his daughter was fortunate to have been chosen for training. He says he now regrets allowing this to happen.

None of us know why VG kept the photograph but I don't find it at all surprising that someone with her experiences kept a photograph of someone she was trafficked to. As others have said, she doesn't look cowed or anxious in that photograph. That shouldn't surprise anyone. Children and young people are vulnerable to grooming, it seems she was. She didn't see it as abuse at the time. That doesn't mean it wasn't abuse.

But she said how horrific it was at the time so surely saw it as abuse , if it did happen, we don’t know

Disassociation is common amongst trafficked people. I’ll bow out now.

A thought provoking post Iam and there's a lot to what you've said, I just think it odd that she would make money out of a photograph from an incident in her life, that she later realised was abuse.

Don't bow out, Iam. You have professional knowledge and experience which is helpful to those of us scratching our heads.

Anyone remember Flanders and Swann? And the song 'Have some madeira my dear'.

I heard it recently and although in these Me too times it is not appropriate to revive but it starts

^She was young, she was pure
She was new, she was nice
She was fair, she was sweet seventeen^

^He was old, he was vile
And no stranger to vice
He was base, he was bad, he was mean^

I would like to post the whole lyric but it is too long, but you can see why, when I heard it, I thought of PA.

Iam I didn’t mean to upset/annoy you.

I can’t help thinking what Leon Brittan and others suffered.

You defended Christine Keeler, she had been abused as a child, but there was also Mandy Rice Davies.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW_zi8n4HDQ

Here you go, M0nica

I thought of Jeffery Epstein.

I did watch the programme. This, coupled with all that I’ve read recently, makes me believe that she was ignorantly complicit during the alleged events but has since been made aware of how her experience amounted to abuse. I suggest her obvious distress on camera is not acting but an anger, probably part directed at herself. When viewing something with hindsight, it is easy to fall into the role of victim, particularly if that hindsight suggests a lack of control or manipulation by others. If she did have sex in the UK at 17 it may have been ‘unfortunate’ but it wasn’t trafficked abuse. But laws are different elsewhere - perhaps something subliminally encouraging her uncertainty about locations.

Virginia defended Epstein by claiming he had an illness

Iam64 - I also saw the interview with her father where he said he met Epstein and in effect handed over his 16 year old daughter to the multi-millionaire for training as a masseuse. He didn't seem to think this was odd at the time. He never mentioned in his interview that she was abused from the age of 7 or had been homeless as a young teenager which she said in her interview. I was shocked because as her father this man should have been protecting her, and yet he now has the gall to come on TV and comment on the awful things that happened to her with PA. What about what happened to her as a child??? Where was he then???

I forgot to add....her father also said in his interview that he knew nothing about her being abused before PA because she was a very good actress which was probably not a good thing to say when she has just gone public with her side of the story.

I`m with Anniebach on this one.
Monice Lewinsky springs to mind tbh.
The £sign speaks volumes.