BBC exit poll

Good heavens I would have thought there would have been grounds for someone to be banned for calling another poster ‘scum’ if that is true.

What a horrible thing to say whatever the provocation.

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There are indeed sensible women who think logically, TM was one of those, only to be defeated by a load of emotional rubbish. The problem for the U.K. now is that if BJ tears up the Withdrawl agreement we are heading for a “no deal” Brexit, because the EU are only going to debate logically and any one state has a veto.

The Labour Party is very likely to bounce back, elect a charismatic leader with sensible policies it could look very different in 5 yrs time. Especially if Brexit does not yield a tangible benefit by then.

GracesGranMK3
But when one of the sensible grans ( MOnica) posts a brilliant insightful post, you infer she doesn't know what she's talking about despite the fact that many posters support her views.

‘Regrettable people can also be very rude ‘

‘But the weight of the stupid is just too much it seems ‘

?

Regrettably, people can also be very rude but that doesn't seem to mean they stop posting and they pay GN's salaries.

I would certainly rather have the information than the rudeness and personal attacks but then, we see to have a particular type of "gran" on here at the moment. Sad, I have always hoped for the sensible to rise to the top but the weight of the stupid is just too much it seems.

Many people, in the view of others, over-explain; ..... it comes from a generous spirit and willingness to share what they know.

Regrettably, it can also be very boring.

Many people, in the view of others, over-explain. It is nothing to do with being a man or a woman. I have always found it comes from a generous spirit and willingness to share what they know.

There are plenty of women who think logically Davidhs both in real life and on GN.
A little more logical thinking by those at the top of the LP may have resulted in a better outcome for them.As it was, they allowed their emotional ideological feelings to win out over common sense.

Mansplaining. I understand that many women make decisions based on emotions and dont like a man or even another woman explaining the logical reason why the decision should be different. That’s the way it is, the whole Brexit issue has been a clever emotional campaign, there is very little logical tangible beneficial argument.

When Grandad tries to explain his point of view in logical terms it is dismissed as mansplaining. As it happens I do acknowledge he has lot of experience in union and labour, issues, some of which I agree with some I do not. There has been a significant degree of gloating because his Labour Party did so badly and it does no credit to those guilty.

Thankfully there are women who think logically because if you have aspirations to become a CEO or any responsible position the buck stops with you and emotional decisions are punished.

A lot of unnecessary "ganging up" here. If you don't like Granddad's posts - don't read them. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says but why shouldn't he give his opinion? There's no need to be rude.

Pink quartz, just do as I do and don’t read Grandad’s posts. I stopped reading them because I feel he talks down to his audience. Others don’t agree. I’m not bothered.

Anniebach, I regularly post my own opinions as I am sure you are aware. However, I do also post on the Labour party and the associated trade union structural and organisational connections to that body as I did in a response to POGs enquiry of me today. That response is based on my limited knowledge of that longstanding association.

Hope this helps.

grandad43. Can you not post your own opinions? Not everyone’s lives are steeped in unions rules and regulations.

Anniebach, in regard to your post @20:45 today, please could you accept the post I have made to pinkquartz above as also a reply to yourself.

Many thanks.

pinkquartz, in regard to your post @20:16 today you have referred to my posts as "dense and incomprehensible ". You have also on several occasions referred to my post disparagingly without making any direct reference to the subject or the augment I have referred too or made in those posts.

There is a simple answer to the problem you appear to have with the contributions that I make to this forum, that being, to simply not read those contributions.

Others seem to appreciate the posts I make and join the debates I enter. Others have asked me at times to clarify what I have stated either by way of this forum or in PMs I have received.

Therefore pinkquartz should you find anything I state " dense or incomprehensible " I am always willing to clarify, or as stated you can always not read my contributions to this forum.

I hope this text helps

GracesGran , just a few days ago you dismissed me as a ‘silly woman’ if that is acceptable then so is ‘boring’ , I am not silly
but epistles on unions are boring.

My opinion

Making personal remarks is rude pinkquartz. It always has been. Saying someone or some people are boring is rude. Why would making a derogatory personal remark not be? Just because it's you that said it?

This is not a thread designed to turn supporters off or on to the labour party. It's a discussion. How can you not know you were being downright rude?

And using faulty reasoning is not an excuse.

I am not rude...
I have my opinion you have yours,

and I did make a question that was ignored. That probably wound me up.

grandad1943 writes dense incomprehensible posts to the ordinary poster.
it gets annoying so I said boring. That is my opinion.
How is saying boring rude if it is true?
It is the kind of language that turns off prospective Labout supporters and sound very old fashioned.

If Labour ever want to be in power again then they have to move on and change and if they don't then we get screwed by the Tories.....(by we I mean the vulnerable like the disabled)

Grandad

"For what its worth, I feel that the trades unions should withdraw support from the parliamentary Labour party, for those unions have achieved huge success through the courts in regard to such matters as Gig Economy working in recent months, which has led to a rise in trade union membership in several industrial sectors without any assistance from the Labour party whatsoever."
--

To be fair that has more or less been your opinion since posting on Gransnet but there have also been voices such as myself since Corbyn was elected years ago warning of the potential split since Corbyn/McDonnell / Momentum took control of the Labour Party. An agreement between us but maybe for different reasons.

The Labour Party quickly, inevitably became a ' Party within a Party', something the Corbynistas consistently /veciferously refuted was happening. It started with the formation of the Jeremy For Leader/Momentum party which from inception created a new/returned to the fold membership who persisted in following /enabling Corbyn/McDonnell far left/Marxist values. It was a 'Party within a Party' because it no longer allowed Labour to be a Broad Church, it was literally constructed to follow/support only ONE MAN / CORBYN and not the wider Labour Party. Anybody who did not agree were classed as ' Hostile' / 'Blairites' who needed throwing out of the ' Their ' Party. Again the Corbynistas refused to accept the intimidation/bullying those MP's were subjected to, no matter how much was reported by them it was the right wing press, the media who were creating conspiracy theories. As with the charges of antisemitism it is all a conspiracy theory to smeer Corbyn no matter if the evidence is visual and written by the man himself. I swear even reporting his words by Hansard would be seen as a Secret Service conspiracy by some.

I think you make a point when talking of the possibility of the Labour Party ' finally splitting'. It has been a question I have asked years ago on Gransnet as there was a distinct casm between some in the Parliamentary Labour Party who were elected by the country and the Jeremy For Leader/Momentum party who have worked a miracle and now holds the nuts and bolts of the Labour Party Executive etc.

I would ask you one question if I may.

Do you think the Unions will continue to follow Len McCluskey/Unite?

I think there have been some cracks prior to the election. Do you have the ear to the ground to believe All Unions will stand by Unite / Momentum and a new Leader of the Far Left at the expense of the Labour Party as we knew it. The General Election proved they were rejected by the Labour Heartlands never ever given credence before Corbyn/Momentum took over Labour.

Dunno? I just either read Grandads posts or not? They are informative and useful. Whats the problem?

pinkquartz Very rude and unnecessary - and have the courage to identify who you are talking about rather than using the words "some people".

Some people have a way of making certain topics sound really boring

maybe the Labour Party could find fresh blood if they didn't have a tendency bore stiff those asking questions.......also "nitpickingness" and the over use of Party Jargon.
ugh

I would also say "stupid shoes"

does this mean I am from Mars?

should I now rethink my gender?

Why are people having a go at Grandad? I often disagree with him, but I don't find him patronising. He knows a hell of a lot more about some issues than I do - or most posters on here, I suspect.

How about one of the Conservative supporters giving some concrete examples of how they have personally involved in/have direct experience of Conservative policies working?

I'd be really interested in reading something like that.