Is this the beginning of the end for the United Kingdom?

You have to remember, though, that the SNP and Greens don’t have the majority share of the votes - so while they have the largest number of seats the remaining majority share of the vote is shared between parties who don’t oppose Trident (with Scottish Labour toeing the UK party line now)

Today I've received this from Scottish CND. Yet another example of how diametrically opposed the Scottish Consensus is from the rest of the UK.

GENERAL ELECTION 2019
We are pleased that Scotland's view on nuclear weapons is reflected in the election results with an overwhelming majority of our winning MPs having a clear anti-Trident stance. It is also encouraging that the issue of nuclear weapons came up so regularly during the campaign on doorsteps and at hustings. It is more of an issue for people than many of the politicians think.

Today is the beginning of a new chapter in Scottish CND's campaign for a nuclear-free Scotland working for a nuclear-free anti-racist world, and responding appropriately to the climate emergency. An anti-nuclear, anti-racist stance was explicit and high profile in the SNP campaign and the one remaining Labour MP in Scotland is known for his steadfast opposition to Trident.

The election results outwith Scotland are a sober reminder that Scotland is currently part of a United Kingdom which is dead set on continuing to prioritise nuclear wepaons at the expense of genuine social and economic security, and to wilfully ignore the planetary crisis.

An independent Scotland will follow a better path than the road the UK is being led down. The power is in our hands to rid the whole of the UK from the scourge of nuclear weapons and we should now be planning the vital and sequential steps towards that end. Meanwhile, we must live and act as part of that global groundswell for peace and human security that is behind the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. It is a sleeves up moment.

At the same time we share the feelings of distress, dismay and actual grief that so many are experiencing today and we wish to express real and heartfelt solidarity with those who are even now picking themselves up to continue the hard struggle for equality, truth and justice. In particular, we salute the courage and the persistence of those in the rest of the UK who work their socks off in the cause of nuclear disarmament in such a hostile climate. We are in this together.

And yet that’s exactly what’s being imposed on us in Europe by Boris.

Many Scots, like me, who live in other parts of the UK and are never consulted do not want to have to produce a passport at Gretna and be treated as foreigners in our own country.

Many more Scots who voted SNP last week to beat the Tories, are still opposed to separatism and it is wrong for the SNP to claim their votes as a mandate for destroying the UK.

And conversely, there are people like me who don’t support the SNP could be persuaded to vote for independence if Sturgeon gets an agreement in place for joining or rejoining the EU - because I really don’t want to be out of the EU with no deal or a poor one just so an extremely right wing Govt can gloat that they got Brexit done.

Many Scots who support the SNP as the governing party would not vote for independence.I was out with 8 people in Glasgow on Friday. All are SNP supporters (although they do not warm to Ms. Sturgeon) but would vote against independence. Why?

They are all in their late fifties and early sixties and are scared to lose their pensions and benefits. They cannot see how an independent Scotland could afford their pensions . None of them believe an English government would continue to pay their pensions after independence.

Just read the document Grany23 pasted. It’s dated 2014 with some documents used in the document itself ranging back to 2012.

I did wonder as some German friends have paid for their children’s Uni fees to the tune of 75000 euros each. This post is up to date, they heaved a sigh of relief this September.

Trident is def good for the local economy in Scotland. Many live locally, renting family homes etc.

I do visit family close by. The scenery is stunning, Loch Lomond, Helensburgh plenty of people holiday. My family would not wish to leave the union.

www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/scotland-isnt-different-its-britain-thats-bizarre/?fbclid=IwAR3n_0IOWqRKsANhIi7BwVk5IALSIXEIuSQMJdoeWoXQ93Ow0B-fPdNLiGk

Quite a long read but gives a different perspective than I've seen elsewhere.

Disentangling Scotland or/an N Ireland from the union is almost certain to cost English Taxpayers a very substantial amount. Ignoring the arguments of relative transfers of national wealth between the various nations there is the need to replace investments, like that at Faslane and ship building facilities on the Clyde unless the English are willing to be dependent upon a foreign country to build all of its military ships. Then, of course, England could have a real problem with the military, they could finish up with a military a large proportion being comprised of foriegn scots or with a better trained military on their northern borders than can mustered in england.

Then there is the nutty problem of the Ownership of the oil and gas fields and the price to paid for Electricity supplies to England by the Scots.

All of these exiting from unions are the behaviours of English fools, determined to wreck all around in fits of peek. It really is time that we, yes my birth certificate states that I am English, started to act like adults rather than stroppy school kids.

Disentagling from the EU may appear to be a cake walk in comparison to the breakup of our national union.

Is there any guarantee that an independent Scotland would be able to join the EU let alone be given a “seat at the top table”?

We (and N Ireland, if that's the route they go down) will be part of the EU as an independent, sovereign nation (like the other members) or in some kind of trade arrangement e.g. like Norway. It boils down to whether enought people here and in N Ireland feel there are more benefits to being part of the EU versus being part of a UK with a vague Brexit path and Boris at the helm. At the moment for me - and I'm sure many others - it's trying to work out which brings more benefits and opportunities and minimises harm to our communities, economy, access to markets and so on. I'd need to see something concrete re our arrangement with the EU from Sturgeon before I voted for independence, but if she could get that then I think she could get her indy wish.

We'd be an equal partner sitting at the table with the other EU nations.
We would no longer be at the mercy of W M, vastly outnumbered by English mp's.
Surely that's obvious!

I don't get it. Scotland don't want to be part of the UK, but want to be part of the EU. Surely, they still wouldn't have independence?

Precisely Alexa. Better to govern ourselves and have a seat at the top table of the big Club, than be subservient to our bigger neighbour, whose 10x larger electorate means that we can never outvote or overrule them.

Quoted: "If Scotland or Northern Ireland have a majority vote to leave then that must be respected. A bit odd not wanting to be part of a four country union but wanting to become a tiny cog in a group of 27+ countries with more hoping to join."

Get the engineering metaphor right. A tiny cog in a large machine pulls more than a cog in a small machine.

I will bookmark that for later SirChenjin

It's not just me then!

Callistemon, You're not!!

That’s certainly something else for discussion but this is a good article from 2014 www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29126569

Would Scotland want to become a member of the Commonwealth, I wonder, if they should become independent?

I still cannot see how, if Scotland should become an independent country, HM Queen will remain your Head of State unless you become a member of the Commonwealth.
Crown jewels or not.
Presumably the Acts of Union will be repealed.

Perhaps I'm missing something.

If you have been looking at the GERS statistics, please be aware that they do not tell the whole story and are full of anomalies e.g.

In addition, whisky consumed in the UK is subject to VAT and alcohol duty. This is assigned to Scotland on the basis of *how much is consumed in Scotland*

Surely as an entirely Scottish Product, the huge revenue generated for the UK exchequer should ALL be credited to the Scottish economy? Also Tax payers in Scotland number just short of 10% of all UK tax payers yet spending in Scotland is based on it having 9.1 % of the UK population. Remember too that Tony Blair, sneakily, moved the Scotland/England sea boundary to England's advantage, putting more oil, gas and fish into England's economy at the expense of Scotland's economy.

Also the largest chunk of Defence spending. i.e. the cost of Trident's base, is attributed to Scotland because that is where it is located. An Independent Scotland would not want this in our Country, would instead spend a more modest sum on conventional defense.

Finally, if you do take these statistics at face value, then please consider that this alleged deficit has occurred within a United Kingdom. I am sure that GNs in the North or Southwest of England would agree that there has been, for generations, an unfair distribution of wealth and Public Spending throughout this land.

Yes, that's right, it's called the Barnett formula. However, you specifically said that the English tax payers would foot the bill if Scotland and N Ireland voted for independence - and that's simply not the case. There would be costs associated with this breakup of the union across the UK, as there are with Brexit, and negotiations with the resulting Govts would then ensue, but it's incorrect to say that people in England would foot the entire bill.

Callistemon Whilst there are a few republicans about, there is no plan to replace the Queen with a President.. There is no Queen of Great Britain, Elizabeth is Queen of both the United Kingdoms i.e. Scotland and England. If her 2 Kingdoms become disunited then she will still be Queen of England and separately Elizabeth, Queen of Scots. The Scottish Crown Jewels are kept in Edinburgh Castle and were taken to the Parliament building (though not worn by the Queen) for the opening ceremony of the new Scottish Parliament.

SirChenjin
I have done some reading on the distribution of UK tax revenue this morning. All of the devolved administrations receive proportionally higher share per capita than England. London and the South East generate the largest portion of revenue and subsidize the remainder of the UK. As per my previous email there will be a cost to Scottish independence which has to be met and Scotland will need to meet its own defence and security costs, border control costs, as well as ongoing health, education, policing, infrastructure etc. The choice may be either they borrow and service their own fiscal debt or there will be some transition arrangement whereby these monies come from current HM borrowing and tax revenues. In the latter case the subsidization will continue and English taxpayers principally in London will be contributing significantly under the existing formula, certainly in the short term.