Will the remainers admit defeat?

Aprilrose - sorry, but I find your post 18.01 very strange, it makes no sense, I have no idea what you are talking about!

I think Johnson speaks as if Brexit will be done and dusted by 31st January. As for leaving when the result of the referendum result came in, do you REALLY believe it's that simple??

I understand the WA will be the first to be agreed and the trade agreements will take probably years longer.

It is just that those things were all promised at the time of the referendum so not unreasonable to expect them to be delivered.

I believe we should have left when the referendum result came in.

Welshwife
I think you should inform your friend that she/he has some facts wrong. It's only the WA that has to be agreed by the 31st Jan. Then we go into talking trade. This must be agreed by Dec 2020.

Clearly Welshwife, you come on without reading other people’s posts. Or, I take it you live in his constituency? I apologise if you do.

Yes. MOnica, we have always had a first last the post system though. It’s only since the 2016 referendum that proportional representation has been bought back to the fore. Those countries that choose to have that sort of vote usually end up having election after election.

One thing though, I was surprised at the lowish turnout again. I know it was winter however, there was postal voting etc.

Probably the people who were daft enough to vote him in!

aprilrose Over 16 million people voted remain, are you really saying that 16 million people, a cross section of the population of the country, including the majority of the population of Scotland and Northern Ireland^demand more of others and expect others to fall into line with their wish lists without allowing others have their own lives and wishes. It seems to me to be a desire for control of others.^

What tosh. Should I assume that every leaver in this country thinks like you?

Who will BJ blame when he gets found out?

My opinion only. The UK will leave on 31/1/2020. The Conservative party got in with 80 seats. Unless you live in Johnson’s constituency you didn’t vote for him, you voted for your local MP. The Conservative party chose BJ as their leader and hence he is the PM.

Other EU countries are asking their migrants to return to build their country. In Portugal they are offering tax breaks and 6K euros. In Poland they are offering tax breaks etc. Some countries are talking about limiting their people leaving their countries!

Difficult for those that wish to remain in the EU to understand that people will want to go home eventually to their own countries and that they may prefer this to living without family etc.

My opinion, the EU has created with freedom of movement a lot of displaced people.

Another problem with Welshwifes list is that it is someone elses anyway. As she said " Stolen from a friend".

Does she not have any opinions of her own?

Are you trying to say that if you are a remainer you work less hard than other people

I do not think so. I am saying they demand more of others and expect others to fall into line with their wish lists without allowing others have their own lives and wishes. It seems to me to be a desire for control of others.

This, in the Telegraph today is heartening. As it’s behind a paywall I’ve not done a link.

“In trying to achieve One Nation, Boris was hindered at every turn by Tories who had that phrase constantly on their lips.

It was neighed by old warhorses like Sir John Major, Lord Heseltine, Lord Patten of Barnes and Kenneth Clarke, with answering whinnies from rebels who left the party, such as Dominic Grieve, David Gauke, Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen.

On Thursday night, every single one of the rebels lost. They leave a Conservative Party at last united, strong and, south of the border, all but omnipresent.

They also leave a government with a large overall majority in the hands of a single, mainstream, broad-based, ancient political party.

That is more, much more, than any other major European country can manage just now. It will make our forthcoming trade negotiations so much easier: we shall be united, the EU divided. Until now, it has been the other way round.”
?

Or could it have been that his "friend" Gove told us all what he really thought of him - that he was totally unfit to be PM?

Greta - why should I need to waste time and bandwidth repeating something I explained back in September in another thread?

Unnecessary attempts to goad in my opinion. Find someone else.

But aprilrose, Johnson constantly voted against May's deal, so why are you blaming remainers? Also, if he's so great at sorting Brexit out, why did he chicken out of standing for leader three years ago? Perhaps it was because he realised that the Brexit he'd fought for was unworkable?

For more than three years the polls have told us that the majority of UK voters want to Remain in the EU. This has been confirmed by a GE where the majority voted for parties which were committed to Remaining or to having a second referendum.

Democracy in the UK is dead, killed off by the FPTP voting system, and the huge financial clout of the Tory party and the tax-dodging billionaires who own our newspapers.

In spite of all their poisonous lying propaganda, the Tories won with a minority of votes. It is utterly sicking. No wonder so many of our best young people are queuing up to join the brexit brain drain.

My take on remaining (ie maintaining the status quo) is that unless there's a really good reason for changing something, don't change. Usually to make a substantial change, it requires a certain percentage (eg 60% of the vote or 45% of the actual electorate).
My personal feeling on Brexit vote and recent election is the massive amount of provable lying, sorry misspeaking.

aprilrose: "you have made my life miserable with three and a half years of squabbling and blocking"

This sounds quite serious so perhaps you could let us know exactly how remainers have made your life miserable? Have you lost a business, has your health suffered, have you been abused?

I realise only too well that it will take a long time to actually be out of the EU - not so many leavers that I have seen interviewed - they cannot understand why we were not out a couple of weeks after the referendum.

I would like to see the same number of new jobs created as those we have already lost to the EU or other places.

april I do not find your views offensive. I find them daft.

Are you trying to say that if you are a remainer you work less hard than other people, strive less, are more likely to live off benefits than put in a hard days labour in the hospital ward or earn a precarious living in the zero hours gig economy.

How peculiar.

Welshwife - you seem in a hurry to have your list of demands delivered immediately. Well I'm afraid you'll have to show some patience. Rome wasn't built in a day you know

But the point here is this is another remainers wish list. The remain minded people seem to think they have some sort of entitlement to set the agenda always and now the leave minded have to jump to their agenda. They want leavers to do it for them....

Well I have news for you. Its not my wish list as a leaver. I see no reason to put your wishes about mine. I have waited three and a half years whilst remainers set their agenda and forced me to live with it . Well, now you can either wait until I have my wish list fulfilled first.

My list is simple. - Brexit first. Then maybe some electoral reform to stop the remain minded blocking parliament the way they did this time and to stop the the use of the courts for political purposes.

The biggest problem I find with the remain minded is that they seem to have a massive sense of entitlement accompanied by a deep sense that someone must do things for them. I suspect this is why they are so attached to the EU - a misguided belief the EU would give them their wishes ( not as they seem to have done anything for that list in my experience)

Having lost the EU prop, remain minded ones have decided that leavers must do things for them. Well how about this for an idea- get up and work toward some of those wishes you have for yourselves. That is what I have found I have had to do for most of my life. I see no reason why I have to carry you now after you have made my life miserable with three and a half years of squabbling and blocking

Sorry if you find my views offensive , but I am straight talking and speak as I find. I have found your views offensive in the past but I have never felt it necessary to try and prevent you expressing them.

I find the Leaver obsession with negotiating terms most peculiar

I think most leavers were quite ready to leave without negotiation. It has been a remainer agenda that has driven three and a half years of negotiation. Now you try and turn tables. Rich that one in my opinion.

Meanwhile I see remainers still cannot accept democracy and are out of the streets in their organised dozens with rent a mob posters protesting against BJ as PM. Just like the democrats in the USA. Violence and clashes with the police from the ever so peace loving remainers it seems.

Here's a link to the tweet that has a link to KK's skit.

I find the Leaver obsession with negotiating terms most peculiar.

I do too. But I'm not sure it is/was a Leaver obsession. It seemed to be Remainer MPs who were terrified of the "Clean Brexit" (no deal) that the Brexit Party was espousing and a Remainer Prime Minister (May) who felt something had to be negotiated.

I recently saw a short clip by the British Russian stand up comic, Konstantin Kisin, that was quite amusing where he took the piss about leaving in the future. The Russian way, he suggested, would have been that we left immediately after the Referendum votes were counted.

So I suppose that our entanglement with complex EU laws is what has caused at least part of the delay.