What now for Labour Party ?

Yehbutnobut

Totally agree. The Unions are to blame for Labour's shame. David Milliband would have had a better chance of defeating Cameron.
Heaven help anyone from Corbyn's front bench becoming leader. Hiding to nothing and evisceration by the Press.

Yehbutnobut the press barons do support the Tory party in their newspapers but they do not have more than one vote each.

Unite has a member sitting in the NEC !

Grandad

So many threads discussing the same thing. I have duplicated this post incase you miss my point and question.

Your words :-

"For what its worth, I feel that the trades unions should withdraw support from the parliamentary Labour party, for those unions have achieved huge success through the courts in regard to such matters as Gig Economy working in recent months, which has led to a rise in trade union membership in several industrial sectors without any assistance from the Labour party whatsoever."
--

To be fair that has more or less been your opinion since posting on Gransnet but there have also been voices such as myself since Corbyn was elected years ago warning of the potential split since Corbyn/McDonnell / Momentum took control of the Labour Party. An agreement between us but maybe for different reasons.

The Labour Party quickly, inevitably became a ' Party within a Party', something the Corbynistas consistently /veciferously refuted was happening. It started with the formation of the Jeremy For Leader/Momentum party which from inception created a new/returned to the fold membership who persisted in following /enabling Corbyn/McDonnell far left/Marxist values. It was a 'Party within a Party' because it no longer allowed Labour to be a Broad Church, it was literally constructed to follow/support only ONE MAN / CORBYN and not the wider Labour Party. Anybody who did not agree were classed as ' Hostile' / 'Blairites' who needed throwing out of the ' Their ' Party. Again the Corbynistas refused to accept the intimidation/bullying those MP's were subjected to, no matter how much was reported by them it was the right wing press, the media who were creating conspiracy theories. As with the charges of antisemitism it is all a conspiracy theory to smeer Corbyn no matter if the evidence is visual and written by the man himself. I swear even reporting his words by Hansard would be seen as a Secret Service conspiracy by some.

I think you make a point when talking of the possibility of the Labour Party ' finally splitting'. It has been a question I have asked years ago on Gransnet as there was a distinct casm between some in the Parliamentary Labour Party who were elected by the country and the Jeremy For Leader/Momentum party who have worked a miracle and now holds the nuts and bolts of the Labour Party Executive etc.

I would ask you one question if I may.

Do you think the Unions will continue to follow Len McCluskey/Unite?

I think there have been some cracks prior to the election. Do you have the ear to the ground to believe All Unions will stand by Unite / Momentum and a new Leader of the Far Left at the expense of the Labour Party as we knew it. The General Election proved they were rejected by the Labour Heartlands never ever given credence before Corbyn/Momentum took over Labour.

Exactly, Yehbutnobut. The media controls 90% of peoples political opinion and what they 'think' they know.

A lot of people on here thought Diane Abbott had 2 left shoes on. Photoshopped. Media.

Yes. trisher they were. You read the wrong papers. You should read the DT and DM

Yes there is Islamaphobia in all the parties but I have seen no evidence that suggests that it is any more prevalent in the Conservative party than in Labour. There is anti-semitism in the Conservativ party as well, but it is less egregious.

The way that commentators and other search records going back decades, if it was endemic as anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, we would have heard of it by now.

Why waste time on all this backward looking, why not look to rebuilding the Labour party in a model that attracts people to vote for it. We need it badly.
.

So Dianne Abbott has one fan. I really do not think she would be a good leader of anything. She has car crash interviews all of the time. Boris has such a good majority I think it will take 10 years before Labour get in again. You don't overturn a majority of that proportion in one parliament.

Labour List to

Rebecca Long Bailey - a strong supporter of Corbyn for leader

Angela Rayner - for deputy leader

They have strong union support

Good grief , two women ! This will lose votes

newnanny, the POINT is not Diane Abbott. It is an example of a Murdoch Tory rag printing lies.

Red nasties! Really! Well thanks a bunch!

To inkkog: how refreshing to find someone in agreement with me for once. I might have voted Green but for Caroline's seriously unsettling ( as Rebecca LB's ) eyebrows!

I find all the obsession with media barons very old fashioned. Sales of newspapers are plummeting, fewer people watch main tv channels. Even if you only have Freeview, yu have a wide choice of channels, many of which have no news or political content at all.

Most people rely on Facebook and other social media for news and blogs, run frequently by excedingly dodgy people (Putin, Chinese, Facebook etc.)

It is so quaintly old fashioned to read about the power of press barons, sounds like a John Buchan novel.

How patronising

Newspapers are now available on line. Isn’t that sweet?

MOnica, I read the Guardian online daily. I AM old though so...

Most people I know read some kind of online news. My daughter certainly does and not via social media, via actual news sites.

M0nica Yes there is Islamaphobia in all the parties but I have seen no evidence that suggests that it is any more prevalent in the Conservative party than in Labour
Really!!! So talking about women as letterboxes isn't Islamaphobic?
Here's one newspaper article you seem to have missed www.independent.co.uk/voices/islamophobia-conservative-party-racism-boris-johnson-muslim-inquiry-a9207191.html
The Muslim council of Great Britain asked for an enquiry into Islamaphobia in the Tory party..
Conservative councillors have tried to block the building of mosques and called for limitations on Muslims entering Britain.
In my opinion the Tories didn't deal with it because they know it taps into a right wing element in society and it might win them votes. When the EDL demonstrate they usually target Muslims and women in hijabs in particular.

trish your quote from my post and your first sentence are in total accord.

Most people rely on Facebook and other social media for news and blogs, run frequently by excedingly dodgy people (Putin, Chinese, Facebook etc.)

Ah, those "most people" I wonder if they know "everybody". The one we try to get the children to understand not to use.

And the rest of the information doesn't matter M0nica ? Ignore the Muslim Council? Ignore the Conservative councillors? Try substituting Jew or Jewish in those complaints. Do things change?

If everyone believes what they read in the press, it's very odd that Boris was elected.

He had a disastrous week in the run up to the election. Alleged hiding in fridges, ( I was watching the show live, didn't quite happen that way) and the child on A&W floor.

He was constantly called a liar. Berated by Andrew Neil/Piers Morgan et al for not giving interviews.

Didn't know how many children he had.

Couldn't be trusted.

Womaniser

Buffoon

Constantly ridiculed for his appearance

If that's positive press I'd hate to see what negative press is like

*A&E floor that should be.

POGS many thanks your thoughtful and very respectful post addressed towards me on the "what next for Labour" thread. I will in as brief a manner as possible address that post and the post by Yehbutnobut @12:58 today in this text.

First, what has to be recognised is that within the Britains broad Labour movement the Parliamentary Labour party is very much looked on as an integral part of that movement, which in real fact it is.

The whole Labour movement has had one core principle at its centre since its conception, that being its leadership should be by way of its membership through a structure that has elected lay members heading all sectors of the organisation right up to the very highest levels. Therefore the conception that Len McCluskey is "all-powerful" in the Unite Union and through that the Parliamentary Labour Party is incorrect.

McCluskey like all trade union General Secretaries works under the instructions and policies laid out by the Unite Unions General Executive Committee which is made up of elected leading lay activists from all the trade sectors within the Unite Union. In short, McCluskey is there to carry out the wishes of the above executive committee and the various lay member led national trade sector committees on a day to day basis.

The above structure has overseen the survival of the trade union movement for well over one hundred and thirty years and has been especially effective in the period since 1979 from which fifteen anti-trade union bills have been placed against those unions by Parliament.

To link the above to the Parliamentary Labour Party, the trade unions hold a substantial number of seats on the National Executive (NEC) of the Parliamentary Party which has always been the case with the exception of the Blair leadership era when the trades unions voluntarily "stood back" from the NEC to enable a leaner structure to seek government office.

That policy did work in bringing forward a "Labour Government" throughout the millennium period. However, many in the broader Labour movement felt, and do still feel, that the Palimentery party lost its connections to the core principles of Labour during those years and on losing the General Elections of 2010 and 2014 many leading lay activists in the trades unions and other Labour sectors became determined that the Parliamentary Party should once again be returned to the auspices of the broader Labour movement.

The problem with the above has become that during the Blair era many Labour election candidates were selected by the Parliamentary Labour Party central office which never had any connection or roots in the wider movement. Many of those persons are still there which has brought about in the present time the continuous battle between the left and right factions within the Parliamentary Party which I feel is irreconcilable and has made the Palimentery Party totally unfit for purpose.

The above is why I and my wife will both be voting at the extraordinary meeting of our Unite Union Branch on Thursday evening for that organisation to "pull the plug" on the more than one hundred years plus close relationship with the Parliamentary Labour Party should such a motion or resolution be placed before the assembly.

Such action would, of course, bring its own new set of problems to the trades unions in Britain, but sadly I (and judging from the dozens of emails and texts flying about) many others feel that such action is now unavoidable.

But BJ is a liar...he wasn't just called it?

It works like this Oopsminty Take one politician who has appeared on a funny TV show and can be a bit of a comedian. Withdraw him from the public gaze for a bit (June 2016) because his mate stabs him in the back. (poor chap). Bring him back and be quite open about his failings (after all every family has at least one divorce and stepchildren these days). Give him a catch phrase- "Get Brexit done" Show he's been a bit of a lad but his current squeeze adores him (photo ops) Make sure he never gives interviews or explains anything (because no one knows what Get Brexit Done means anyway). Result one PM who everyone remembers as funny, who might have a bit of a shady past (people love bad boys) but who doesn't keep harping on about policies and things people don't want to engage with anyway.

OK, trisher.

But I still find it intriguing

After all we were constantly being told that people had changed their minds.

That they didn't want 'Brexit done'

We'll just have to see how he gets on.

I think the Beauty of "Get Brexit Done" Is the it can mean anything