What now for Labour Party ?

Several Labour MP's that I have seen interviewed (sorry the only names that I can actually recall are Lisa Nandy and John McDonnell this morning) have said that the traditional Labour voters did not trust Corbyn or his ability to deliver what was in their manifesto, and were worried about Labours borrowing.

Alexa Have you no insight into how devastating arrogant your statement above is. It is because the whole Labour Party thought like you that it lost the election.

Isn't your own attack on Alexa arrogant Monica.

Firstly she says "Corbyn is a good man". She is wholely entitled to that opinion and many will agree with her. He has, without a doubt been one of the most lied about leaders I have seen while a liar now has a vast majority.

So if, as Alexa seems to be suggesting, the population in large numbers vote for a lying but entertaining politician who talks far-right policies then perhaps we should look at a politician who appeals in the same way but from with obvious credentials that appeal to those who I describe as "working without wealth" and doesn't lie.

If you are going to jump on everyone who does not agree with your views we may as well all go back to the disgusting "Usual big mouths" thread and just shout at one another.

Rather, let's look at the truths in Alexa's post and analyse what they mean.

Could we not return to the O/P and discuss what next for the
Labour Party after Corbyn

February 27th 2020 will be the 120th anniversary of the creation of the Labour Party. How/will they be celebrating this?

All this talk about Corbyn being a good man begs the question - if he’d won, would he have toured some of the constituencies, previously Tory strongholds, thanking them for their support? I suspect the answer is no and that’s why people didn’t like/trust or vote for him.

Say what you like about Boris, and we’ve all said something bad about him these last months, at least he’s had the common decency to acknowledge ALL the support he’s received.

Annie could you try reading what I said instead of what you want me to say. I said that I know a small number of people who voted Brexit and they were already Conservative supporters. I didn't say I knew everybody in every Labour seat who voted Brexit.

Pantglas2 I freely acknowledge that Boris is, and always has been, the complete showman, milking every aspect of publicity that just requires a smile, a handshake, and a couple of words. He's good at it. But so are snake oil salesmen.

you have to wonder why Brexit is so important to some.

It could be due to an issue that is not mentioned any longer.

Yes a smile, a handshake but he doesn’t hug and claim
‘I feel your pain’

poor people now do not feel that the Labour party represents them that much is clear.
are the "working classes" still the poor? or are the poor now either unemployed or just badly paid.
There was no confidence in Labour giving the poor or is it working classes what they want.
I have seen examples where working people on low wage cannot afford their prescriptions or their children's extras at schools.

Those stuck in zero hours or very low paid jobs are the people that won't belong to unions but most need representations at Govt.
Also now this is including women.
Back in the day most unions were majority men (other than Unison).
Women are now poorly represented by working class or poor MP because it is not possible for a poor woman to enter politics especially with kids and no partner.
No one represents these people and that might be the danger.

pinkquartz here are now more women union members than men and it's growing 3.39 million in 2017 3.52 million in 2018.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/805268/trade-union-membership-2018-statistical-bulletin.pdf

The next leader ?

Not - Rebecca Long Bailey. Emily Thornberry. Angela Raynor. Dawn Butler. Diane Abbott.

I would consider voting Labour again in further if the party was led by a moderate like Lisa Nandy. I have watched her on Politics Live for many months and always find her compassionate, intelligent but respectful and considerate of others’ views. Watching John McDonnell this morning on the Andrew Marr Show it was obvious that, despite his denials, he and Corbyn will champion somebody with left wing views, they have been pushing Rebecca Long-Bailey for some time and Angela Rayner was also mentioned. It seems no lessons will be learned and that the average Labour voter, like I was formerly, are turned off by extreme policies. I am still incredulous that Jeremy Corbyn is blaming Labour’s catastrophic performance on Brexit, his head is firmly buried in the sand.

Grandad

" At he opposite end of the spectrum within the Parliamentary Labour Party, you have the membership which Monica so well describes, who have had an academic upbringing and education with very many never having any experience of manual working employment or any employment experience whatsoever outside of politics. They are largely in their political views the "blairite" or right wing of the Parliamentary partyandcwould wish to see a return of such a leadership regime.
-
What a weird thought.

If as you say the Parliamentary Labour Party Blairite faction as you like to refer to them are predominantly made up of MP's who in your own words ' have had an academic upbringing and education with very many never having any experience of manual working employment or any employment experience whatsoever outside of politics.' where does that leave individual MP's. For example Corbyn who has been in politics for decades, has he ever had a manual job?, is he Blairite? Of course not.

Are you seriously saying the Momentum/Corbyn Labour Party has no members with an academic upbringing, they all have experience of manual working employment and there are no politicians there are no politicians who have devoted the working life within politics?

What happened to divide the Labour Party this time round was the reverse of New Labour over the Far Left. It was a resurgence of far left members reminiscent of Militant Tendency gaining the power, holding the nuts and bolts over the party. A pur power struggle which they won.

As for who should be the new Labour Leader surely there should be nominations, hustings and voting by the members. Thereby hangs the question I have asked many times ' what happens when Corbyn is no longer Leader'. Will those who rejoined Labour under the guise of Momentum still be up for the fight? Will the Labour Membership be reshaped again if a more centric / left of center MP becomes Leader?

The 2 are it seems totally incompatible and perhaps the question I asked on Gransnet years ago when Corbyn became Leader 'Could Labour Split ' becomes a reality.

The days of the likes of Corbyn being able to sit on the green benches challenging his Leadership values and continually going in the opposite direction over the EU/Defence etc. are going to be difficult to recapture and that includes on the Conservative side also.

I hope our Parliamentarians can come back to some semblance of respecting each other but the past few years it has become the domain of harrasment, bullying and that is without any shadow of doubt down to the EU Referendum but it has to be accepted prior to the EU Refendum the election of the Jeremy Corbyn/ Momentum had caused a shock wave through the Labour which is well documented.

It looks to me the rejection of Labour by the country at the General Election has not made the penny drop, it was not liked outside of the bubble of activists who will defend it and apportion blame to anything and anybody because the truth is unbearable to accept.

Anniebach, I completely agree, see my post following yours.

There is always a solution for those who state that the Labour Party no longer represent the working population of this country.

That solution is to join the Labour party and then fight for what you believe the core values of the Parliamentary Labour Party should be. To that effect, you must stand for election to the Constituency, District, Regional and National Committees and gather around you those who think in similar fashion and belief to yourself and vote as a block.

The alternative to the above would be to join a trade union and fight in similar fashion to the above. Those unions are often looking to train persons to represent members at disciplinary and grievance hearings with employers even when not employed at a company. In that way, you will gain a deep inside into the very real sharp end of what those trade unions really stand for in today's working world.

On site representatives very often put their own jobs on the line in representing others in workplaces and are in that foremost in hard left wing thinking in the Labour movement.

The above persons are the real core of the trade unions and Labour movement. Therefore it is right that their political views should be foremost in that movement. Accordingly those who would sneer at those representatives views from the comfort of an armchair and by way of social media, should I believe get off their backsides and actually go about trying to change things to the image they desire.

In that effort, such persons often change their own core thinking political values.

.......are the real core of the trade unions and Labour movement. Therefore it is right that their political views should be foremost in that movement

Grandad, yes and no,but at the end of the day you need to get people who are not in the movement and may be doubtful of you to vote for you and while I am not suggesting policies should be dictated by the electorate, especially if they contravene a parties core principles, but I think at the end of the day it is a pragmatic balance between those you mention and the wider world that need to decide policy.

What now for Labour?

It will go through a difficult period of soul searching but the division and intimidation that has happened has caused deep wounds.

The new Leader will be a continued exercise in where the power lies. At the moment it is with the far left/Momentum group and quite rightly the membership and Unions. They will not give up easily, especially their hold over the National Executive Committee etc.

It will take a very strong character to become Leader and to be honest I do not see one waiting in the wings, male or female,.

My bet would be Keir Starmer for Centre /Centre Left but he is a flip flopper who will no longer be able to change his rhetoric to suit the interviewer, he must be prepared to make a case and stick to it.

For the Left I think Richard Burgon could come into play I would not rule him out.

Richard Burgon would be a disaster, he showed naivety and errors of judgment in sharing his opinions about how disastrous the election campaign was to a Conservative ‘friend’ then expected people to believe it was banter and an exercise in reverse psychology. He also told Andrew Neil that Labour’s poor performance was due to Brexit and the way Corbyn has been portrayed in the media, another one whose head is in the sand and who needs a reality check. If Brexit played a part it was because Corbyn refused to get off the fence.

Just selecting existing Labour MPs at random to suggest as Leader of the Palimentery Labour Party by any member of this forum will achieve nothing.

The next leader will be elected by those who are direct members of the Labour Party and by the affiliate members within the broader Labour movement.

Should members of this forum wish to have a vote in that election then they should join either the party or the broader Labour movement, gain a vote, and then become an activist in securing the nomination and election of the MP they feel will be most suitable for the position?

No other action will make any difference to the outcome of that ballot, whenever it comes about.

Aw Grandad43. You knowledge amazes me.

I am so disappointed to learn any MP I suggest for leader on this forum matters not and I have to become a member of the Labour Party to vote for my choice of leader . ?

Is being brought up in a single parent family and then orphaned at the age of 13, being brought up in a council flat and being a postman, "working class" enough?

Alan Johnson has said the Corbyn couldn't lead Labour out of a paper bag.

It's about time Labour ditched the labels. Don't forget that Attlee himself was public school and Oxford educated.

Grandad The vast majority of people of working age in the UK are "working class". There is a tiny minority of people who are so super wealthy that they don't need to work. The current "working class" might not get their hands dirty doing dirty and physical work. They might not wear cloth caps and sup beer, but they're still working class.

Trisher

there might well be more women in the LP but that was not what I said or even close.

There are no MP's representing those at the bottom.
The ones in the shite low paid unskilled jobs etc
There are more people like this as it what has been created by Labour and now Tory Govts.
THIS
might be one reason why they do not vote for Corbyn as He didn't represent them

MOnica is right. According to the TUC, there were 6.23 trade union members at the end of 2018 (and no guarantee that they would all support Labour). Nearly 14 million people voted for the Conservatives on Thursday, so Labour needs to appeal to nearly another 8 million people who aren't union members.