What now for Labour Party ?

I agree with you pinkquartz. I was thinking that as I typed my last post.

BTW If anybody wants to see a good (though depressing) film, go and watch "Sorry we missed you".

Any enlightened management knows that if the system doesn't produce outcomes which work, the system needs to be changed.

If the LP leader didn't have to be an MP, I would have suggested the TUC leader Frances O'Grady. Very cool and imressive in in debates.

Annie who is MacDonald?

I am a union member and I do not support Labour and I opted out of the political levy when I was working.

Lisa Nandy is considering standing for the leadership, I will
join again

I was a union member throughout my working life too - NATSOPA (now part of Amicus/Unite), ATL and Unison, but I never voted for Labour while I was a member. I don't think I even knew I could opt out of a political levy. I don't think ATL was affiliated, so I probably didn't pay one.

If grandad1943
thinks the solution is for people to join the Labour Party then he will never see Labour in power again.
It is up to the LP to find out what people want and address that. Not for people to fit in with Labour.
If you want the Labour Party to be a viable Opposition to the Tories,

Labour are not trusted anymore. I knew this for a long time but none of the Labour supporters on here wanted to hear this so you ignore what you don't want to hear.

I would rather cut my throat than vote Tory so that I will never do that, but there are clearly voters who have voted for them on this occasion. It might never happen again.

So this is the time for Labour to find out what they can do for the people.
Not the other way around. If you stick stubbornly to telling people to join the LP etc you will continue to lose.
I have voted Labour in the past but I doubt I ever will again.
The women MP's seem so snobby for a start. Like that horrible Thornberry woman. She looks down on the poor and the poor know this and she is not the only one,
Ms Abbott is only popular in her own constituency.

Grandad and a lot of people I know are doing just that...joining the LP so they can have a say. Not sure what Annie means (but then that’s nothing new!)

Corbyn is a good man. But he seemed to lose momentum (‘cuse pun) and looked tired and dispirited during this election. Hardly surprising considering the weight of the Tory propaganda machine supported by big business and Boris’ mate the Chief Rabi spreading disinformation.

We need a more social-media savvy electorate who can distinguish between truth and fiction.

pinkquartz that does not make sense. Reform will only come from within. I query your ‘logic’ and condemn your blanket dismissal of Labour women MPs as ‘snobby’.

I think that's a bit unfair on female Labour MPs pinkquartz. Off the top of my head, there seem to be some talented women in Labour, although most of them aren't in the shadow cabinet:

Powell, Onwurah, Cooper, Phillips, Reeves, Creasy, Nandy, Champion, Abrahams, Kendall, Dodds (I'm sure there are more).

I wouldn't necessarily see them as PM material, but I think they'd be good as shadow ministers. I'd also include Angela Rayner. I really don't agree with some of what she says and she'd be a terrible PM, but I admire her for her background and she can certainly hold her own in a debate.

They need someone that can stand up to Johnson and imo Keir Starmer is the only one that can do that. Johnson will be all loud and funny and Starmer, with his legal background would just quietly hold him to account. Again, Thornberry has a legal background and shouldn't be shot down in flames for her silly white van man comment. Dianne Abbott should never have been put forward as Home Secretary; she is now just a good, well loved constituency MP; I was horrified at the thought of her being on the front benches. I'm afraid I can't stand Angela Rayner. I adore Jess Phillips; she's the sort of politician that I would lay down and die for. Long Bailey has the charisma of a muddy puddle.

I like Lisa Nandy. She knows the north and northern problems. Can't stand Angela Rayner who talks at you. A woman or David Lammy would send the right signals of inclusiveness and break the white man's hold on the party.

Yes; I was very impressed with her on QT once and wrote to her; that was back in the day when QT was watchable. She seems a bit young though. Parliament is going to be quite brutal. I have no idea who all the new Conservative MP's are; Anna Soubry said she didn't recognise many of them. I'll so miss Anna's 'chuntering' on the back benches .

In regard to forum members that have spoken on the "political Levy" that trade union members pay as an addition to their normal membership subscriptions, approximately eighty percent of Unite Union members pay the additional Levy, and I believe the situation is similar in other unions.

The above is despite legislation brought about in 2016 that confirmed members having to declare they wished to opt in to paying the political Levy rather than signing a separate form to opt-out of the Levy.

In its last financial statement lodged with the trades union ombudsman, the Unite Union declared that its total membership was above one million two hundred and fifty thousand of which one hundred and ten thousand had signed to state they did not wish to pay the political Levy.

There are also affiliation fees to the Labour Party that come from individual trade union branches directly to Constituency Labour parties. In that any union member can be elected by their branch (should they wish) to represent that branch or trade sector at a local Labour Constituency party. Many trade union members get their first real experience of political life in that way with the members trade union branch paying the additional affiliation subscription directly to the Consiuency from branch funds held.

However, it has to be remembered by trade union members attending constituency meetings in the forgoing way, that they are there to represent the views of the Branch and/or union they are members of and not their own personal views on any matter.

To present your own views at such meetings any person has to be a direct individual Labour Party member in their own right.

Yesbutnobut

you may think I don't make sense. (I do struggle that is true for health reasons) but
I am trying to say the opposite to you.
Your LP has lost support and people do not want to join.

I am suggesting that it is not helped by Thornberry. and the others like her.
She is not the only one. They do look down on many of their constituents as "stupid" and do you think this helps?
No of course not.
I don't think I made a blanket dismissal but anyway I doubt I am far off. ANd this is what other people thin too. Not your political friends but the voters.

You cannot simply reform form within, because first you need to listen to people
I am talking about you finding out what people want not endless reform , infighting, it is so boring you switch people off.

Get out to the people and find out why they don't vote Labour?

Your dismissal of my views is an example of what i mean You do not listen.

It is now up to the LP to support the poor or lose their votes

Attending a local constituency party and forbidden to voice your own opinions ?

growstuff

maybe I was a bit unfair but it is also public perception.
Which affects votes.
Most of us simply do not read up on all the MPs as there are rather a lot of them.

A leader has to appeal to the country not just the North, accents irritate people , don’t mean this to be offensive but it’s true

I canvassed for many general elections , door knocking, telephone, in Wales and England

The poor will undoubtedly suffer under a Conservative government, but the Labour Party also needs to listen to those who want to do better for themselves. They don't want to think that however well their children try at school, they're going to end up in a poorly paid, insecure menial job. They don't want to have to rely on benefits for the rest of their lives. They couldn't give a stuff about labels and whether they're "true" socialists.

The Labour Party needs to attract the people who aren't currently party or union members. Blair realised that and that's why he was so successful.

The Labour Party has let down a lot of people who won't benefit from a Conservative government, which I fear we're landed with for (probably) more than one term.

Which accents do you think irritate people Annie?

growstuff, in regard to your post @18:41 today, under the Tony Blair Labour administration working people and their families witnessed the introduction of Zero Hours Employment Contract and the beginnings of Gig Economy terms of employment.

How did those measures benefit working people, whatever reginal ascent they may carry?

growstuff They don't want to think that however well their children try at school, they're going to end up in a poorly paid, insecure menial job.
The labour manifesto proposed providing more apprenticeships and providing lifelong access to education. If these wouldn't have provided the base for children to progress what would?

Zero hour contracts were pre 1997, in 1998 those working zero hours contracts were to be paid the minimum wage , this was the Blair government who came to power in 1997 and brought in the minimum wage 1998

Blair is the first reason Labour is no longer trusted.

If Labour continues to ignore the poor, aspirational ones or not, they will never get back in power. Because they have no appeal and do not listen