What now for Labour Party ?

The above is why I have stated that speculating on who the new Labour leader may be is pointless, as there is much "political water to flow under the bridge" prior to any new leader taking up office

That’s as maybe Grandad1943 but the Guardian is fuelling the speculation tonight.

I think the hard left prefer glorious defeat to the ideological compromise of power. Far better to be pure than to achieve things.

This is why they claim 2017 was all down to Corbyn, but 2019 is all down to the media, false consciousness, all the usual excuses.

This election was not a glorious defeat, it was a crushing, humiliating one.

The .unions won’t leave the Labour Party, they have the power now.

Labour are just a large hobby club, a stopover for the young before they get any responsibility in their lives and a pastime for middle class city dwellers with too few challenges and too much leisure time.

It’s laughable that a party dominated by the sixth form socialists of Momentum and posh boy, Oxbridge Marxists like Seumas Milne think they can connect to Britain’s working class with their brand of 70s student Trot politics and 21st Century identity outrage.

Time for a new centre left party to arise from the ashes if the Tories are not to rule forever.

M0nica in regard to your post @22:07 today, the Labour Party was born out of the trades unions over one hundred and twenty years ago. That party was brought into being when the trade unions realised that not all the wishes of their members such as better housing, education and health services could be obtained from industrial shop floor power.

The same situation is still in existence today, and therefore industrial shop floor representation of workers and a political stance go hand in hand within Btritains trade unions.

However, it is clear that the recent rifts in the parliamentary Labour Party and the continual undermining of Jeremy Corbyn by the right in that organisation have brought many in the broader Labour movement to question the continued close financial support of the parliamentary Party.

As stated, the above debate is only just getting underway within the trades unions the outcome of which I certainly would not place any bet on.

MotherHubbard ??
If lessons cannot be learned both by the Opposition front bench and LP members generally, then they won’t get into power in five years time.Simply being in denial as some posters on this thread are, is dismaying.Where is their logic to continue this way in the face of the facts? Wasn’t the result brutal enough for them? Or so brutal that they are traumatised?!

Grandad you are arguing with people who have said they will never vote Labour but want a choice in the next Leader. The words banging, head and wall come to mind.

Urmstongran Would you personally vote for a new centre-left, socially liberal party? (Serious question - not trying to trick you.)

Urmstongran and who will finance this new centre party. The new Alliance party failed and the Liberal Democrats have had the impact of a wet mop in this General Election.

The above was due to those parties not having the financial resources that are required in the present day to drive any effective campaign in British politics.

So the rise of a new effective centre party at present, dream on.

Not quite true GracesGran. As I've written, my vote really doesn't matter, which is why I have the luxury of being able to vote with my conscience for the party which has policies closest to my own.

However, if my vote mattered, I would seriously consider voting Labour BUT I need to be persuaded - and I'm afraid I'm not. I suspect there are quite a few people who think the way I do.

IF Scotland gets independence and after boundary changes, which will almost certainly mean the loss of more former Labour than Conservative seats, Labour has two choices - either it sticks with ideology which doesn't appeal to people or it widens its appeal.

Actually, Grandad the LibDems gained about a third of the number of votes which Labour did for a fraction of the number of seats.

I don't have the stats to hand, but I know my local branch was nearly broke after the 2017 election, but we picked up so many new members since then that we had plenty of money - and this is in a constituency which will never ever be anything but Tory. The money comes from "Short money" and membership subscriptions and a bit from raffles and social events. True the opposition parties need funds, but there are actually some quite wealthy people out there who would support them.

* Grandad*. There is nothing like fund-raising for getting any organisation pulling together.

You are right the Lib Dems did have no more effect than a wet mop. There were three reasons for this. Firstly the LibDems lost out in this election because it was an immense slugging match between two ideologies and two individuals that people adored as a god or loathed with an all consuming loathing.

Such was the strength of feeling in voters disgusted by their traditional party that they voted for the only party they knew they were absolutely sure could defeat the leader of the party they used to support. Lib Dems certainly lost out in constituencies where Labour and Conservative were eyeball to eyeball

Away from the eyeball to eyeball contests. In my Conservative constituency, where Labour doesn't have a snowball in hell's chance of winning, the Lib Dem vote increased by nearly 20%. It was the same in a similar constituency I know well about 30 miles away.

The other reason we held our vote, but did not advance is that we had some policies in the manifesto that were bound to be unpopular and did lose us votes. Finally, and it hurts to say this , Jo Swinson did not come over well. Jeremy Corbyn had clearly had a make-over by a stylist and came over as well dressed and well maintained. Jo Swinson needed something similar.

However, Jo Swinson, when it was clear she had lost behaved with grace and accepted responsibility and immediately resigned. She set a good example to other party leaders that was not always followed..

I wish people would get rid of this idea that Londoners are all wealthy. Inner London has one of the highest proportions of people in poverty on the whole country.

Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Newham, Brent and North Kensington all have poverty rates of over 40% with a whole list of others with poverty rates over 30%.

GGMk3 I have no desire to have any say in the choice of the next labour party leader, but I do want to see a strong Labour party capable of taking on the new government. One party able to hold sway with little or no opposition is a very dangerous position for a country to be in and it puts democracy under threat.

The only way it can come back is if it changes it leadership and listens to it disaffected voters. If it wants to fashion itself into the Socialist Purity League, the sooner the Labour party, under a new name can pick up the pieces and start again.

Watching a prefectly good political party disappearing up its own fundament is not a pretty sight and is best avoided.

Grandad because the Labour party grew out of the Unions, over a 100 years ago doesn't stop it changing with the times and loosening that hold, not completely, but a bit.

Ooops! I missed out Southwark with a poverty rate of 41%.

Yes, it was a crushing defeat for Labour in the main due to Brexit and many believe disunity within the Parliamentary Labour Party that had been going on for more than two years. However, even in that, they are to maintain over two hundred seats in the House of Commons, and where are the others, the Lib Dems with eleven, the Brexit Party and all others with not a single seat. There are some independent MPs I believe but the above figures state it all with the Tory Party and the Parliamentary Labour Party remaining as the two dominant forces in British politics into the foreseeable future.

That is unless the broader Labour movement in the country decides to end its support for the Parliamentary Labour Party it created so many years ago.

That is where all political eyes should be fixed I feel, as that is where real change in British politics may come about.

I do find it strange that the declared "I will never vote Labour in my life" feel they have a right to tell that party what is best and who to choose as their leader. Let the LP just get on with it. Their members will choose their leader, not you.

Exactly GracesGranMK3. Particularly from those voting for a fake Trump clown.

Not to mention, WHY are non Labour members still interested? They have a 5 year run at government. Surely THAT is what they should be following now?

Probably because a robust opposition with a strong voter appeal is healthy. It keeps any government on their toes!

Brexit was an issue but that links to Jeremy Corbyn's leadership doesn't it. On the doorsteps around here, people even said they liked our (ex) Labour MP but couldn't vote for him because it could result in Corbyn in number 10. This didn't just happen in the weeks before the election either, it's been a growing theme in recent years.

GG3 probably because they just love telling others what to do.

Whilst of course there are very impoverished parts of London, Putney newly acquired by Labour isn't one of them. An extremely affluent area. A sad irony, whilst losing many of their heartlands inhabited by the very people who they should have resonated with, they gain a consituency stuffed full of houses worth millions. A friend told me about a video of an interview with a Grace Blakely on Piers Morgan Breakfast show, also partaking is Jaqui Smith, Home Secretary I believe in the Blair government, it's quite interesting to see how Grace shouts down everyone else, particularly Jacqui Smith who was quite unable to get a point across. Googling her credentials she is part of the very Metropolitan elite, with a 1st from Oxford and a private education. Unfortunately she exemplifies the fact that for quite a while this demographic have been dominating the Labour party and they surround themselves with their own echo chamber rather than the traditional Labour voter.

Urmstongran Quote [ Probably because a robust opposition with a strong voter appeal is healthy. It keeps any government on their toes!] End Quote.

Urmstongran this Tory Government now has a large overall majority in the House of Commons. Therefore no fine words by anyone from the opposition in parliament or the appeal that may have to the electorate will prevent this government from doing exactly what it wishes for the next five years.

And that's the way it will be

When the Conservative party held a leadership contest this year the labour supporters here certainly gave their opinions on those standing so why not those who are not labour supporters give their opinions on the next labour leader ?

Gagajo, not voting Labour does not equate with voting Conservative any more than not voting Conservative equates with voting Labour.

I agree Grandad1943 and (for now) I’m more than happy as I think Brexit needed doing and Boris will do this country proud.

That said, in 5 years’ time Labour needs to be a credible alternative.

I’d have like someone of the calibre of John Mann to be leader. I’d trust him.