Sensible discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls

Champagne socialist is an offensive term that irritates but....

Anniebach Quote [ What is puzzling is so many threads about the homeless and hungry . I am called a closet Tory by the poster who declares
I am going to enjoy good food and good wine. A closet Tory!] End Quote.

Anniebach Quote [ How to use that structure to their benefit’ , really grandad43 ?
Explains much ] End Quote.

Anniebach, yes I have used the Labour movement structure through the Trades Unions to my benefit, and I am quite proud to have done so, as in that anyone could obtain career success by carrying out similar.

I failed and was failed by the Secondary Modern Education system in the 1950s, but it was the Transport & General Workers Union (TGWU) through their education sector that enabled me to improve greatly that situation throughout the 1960s and early 70s. In 1984 being elected as the employee's Safety rep in a large road transport depot, again it was the TGWU that enabled me to train for that role and in that, I eventually became a senior safety officer for eight large road transport distribution centres. Much of that advanced industrial safety training was obtained through the TGWU education sector which was supported by my employer throughout.

The above allowed me and my wife to start our own business in industrial safety in 2003 which took off in a way we could never have dreamed of and now employs thirty-nine people here in the UK and European Union.

We now carry out regularly training in industrial safety of Unite Union activist members, and I always hope that at least some of those members under tuition will use that training to change their lives in a similar manner that I used such training to change my life.

After all Anniebach, what do you expect of Labour movement members, that they should run around in sackcloth for all of their lives?

ilovecheese! 16:29:214
What a sensible, measured post.
I hope everyone thinks as hard and don't just vote tribally.

‘How to use that structure to their benefit’ , really grandad43 ?

Explains much

True POGS

What is puzzling is so many threads about the homeless and hungry . I am called a closet Tory by the poster who declares
I am going to enjoy good food and good wine. A closet Tory !

POGS, in regard to your post @17:32 today, I have been a member of the Unite Union (formerly the Transport & General Workers Union) since 1964. In that capacity, I have been an activist Affiliate member of the Labour Party for more than fifty-five years and therefore each week at first paying the political Levy directly from my wages and in later years by direct debit monthly subscription.

Even in the Blair era like very many, I continued to pay the political levy as part of my overall Unite Union subscription even though I disagreed with much that Blair and his cronies carried out in that era.

Therefore my commitment to the Labour Movement and the Parliamentary Party I feel is far greater than someone who gives up membership of any section of the Labour movement just because they cannot get what they wish.

One thing I have learned in all my years of membership would be that when any situation in the Labour movement is not as you desire, you remain in the movement and fight through its constitution to bring about change as you wish to see it.

However, there are those that despite claiming long year's of membership do not know its structures or how to use that structure to their benifit, instead they throw in their hand and become closet Tories sniping uselessly from the fringes.

Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, has called for Labour to be rebuilt “as a trusted force for good” following its election defeat.

He was speaking after the first poll of Labour members since polling day suggested that he would pick up around a third of first-preference votes if he were up against six of the other likely candidates, and that he would eventually beat Rebecca Long Bailey, his strongest rival, by 61% to 39%. (Labour uses the alternative vote in leadership contests, and so the votes of losing candidates are reallocated.)

He refused to confirm today that he will be standing, but there is no doubt about what he is planning and a formal announcement that he will be a candidate is expected soon!

I am not a member of the Labour Party, or a Labout voter, but I really like Hilary Benn. Although not agreeing with everything he says, he seems like an honest, sensible, reliable politician to me, which are few and far between these days. (Liked his dad, too.)

Anniebach

New Year, same old, same old.

I find it it intriguing you are persistently hounded by the same posters for daring to speak about the Labour Party because you may have ' temporarily ' given up your membership by those who state they are not Labour Members themselves.

Everybody is entitled to discuss parties they may or may not hold membership of or vote for.

It's not as if they ' Practice what they Preach ' and refrain from joining in threads, initiating threads that discuss political Parties they too have no membership of, or vote for.

Very peculiar is the politest way to put it.

grandad43 I know you are not a member of the Labour Party, let me explain , one can give up one’s membership of
a party but do not have to support another party, party members can choose to leave a party when the leader of that
party is anti semetic, a terrorist supporter and given to telling
lies ,one is free to stand by one’s principals, sadly union members have to toe the line regardless of the leader and regardless of their own principles.

PernillaVanilla

'I'll vote for Kier Starmer as the party needs to move away from the far left views which seem to be very unpopular.'
---

I asked this question earlier in the thread and wondered if you as a Labour Member entitled to vote could round the circle of confusion I hold regarding Keir Starmer and the perception he is not of the Corbyn/McDonnel/Momentum faction of the Labour Party.

The question I asked:-

' How is Keir Starmer trying to ' Bridge the gap' when he states:-

" What Corbyn bought to the Labour party was a change of emphasis - radicalism that really matters - we need to build on that, not oversteer and go back to a bygone age."

Does that not imply Starmer is content to set his stall out as being positioned well and truly in the Corbyn/McDonnell camp and thus holds the same policies that has just seen Labour trounced in the General Election.'

By using the term ' bygone age ' whilst championing Corbyn and McDonnell what ' context ' can be assumed other than Starmer does not want to go back to the Blair era of a centrist Labour Party.?

He cannot mean the' bygone age ' of the 70's/80's far left or he would not be championing Corbyn/McDonnell surely.

Personally I think having watched Starmer perform over the years I think he is a bigger flip-flopper than Andy Burnham, whilst being interviewed he will give an account he thinks will suit the interviewer or media outlet at a drop of a hat and has performed with inconsistency as to Labour's position.

Yes, you are right Lemongrove, leadership skills are important, but there are limits to the sort of policies that I could support even if they came from a charismatic leader.
To me, there would be no point in winning as another Conservative lookalike party.

Surely you would also vote for somebody that you hoped had good leadership skills as well?
The LP doesn’t need another weak leader.

I am a Labour Party member and have decided to take the radical step of:

A) Waiting to see you is actually going to stand for the leadership.

B) Listening to the policies that they support.

C) Voting for the one that supports the most number of policies that I would like to see.

I will not worry about their looks or their accent or their education.

Anniebach Quote [ Much more lack of enthusiasm for Corbyn even amongst Labour Party supporters] End Quote.

Yes undoubtedly there were many Labour supporters who never wished to see Jeremy Corbyn become leader, but he was twice overwhelmingly elected to that position by those that took part in the Leadership Ballot.

That's democracy.

There were undoubtedly also many activists in the Labour movement who did not wish to see Corbyn become leader. However, the vast majority of those did not give up their Labour movement membership and activities to become closet Tories just because they did not get for leader who they wished to see.

I do hope you don't think I am a Boris fan Grandad - if so you must have missed my posts!

I don't mind if you don't read them.

Sadly, even more of a lack of support for Jo Swinson, she even lost her seat.

Much more lack of enthusiasm for Corbyn even amongst Labour Party supporters

Callistemon Quote [There would appear also to be a lack of enthusiasm for McCluskey even amongst his own union.] End Quote.

Yes Callistemon, just as there would appear also to be a lack of enthusiasm for Boris Johnson even amongst some his own Tory Party Supporters.

Good, PernillaVanilla
Let's hope enough members think like you.

McCluskey doesn't speak for them all and some of them really dislike him

growstuff that is what I was saying too, in a different way, but apparently I have been misinterpreted.

There would appear also to be a lack of enthusiasm for McCluskey even amongst his own union.

I am a labour Party member. Before the election members of the local party to which I belong were invited to a meeting where John McDonnell and our local MP invited us to make a list of a small number of issues where we would want the manifesto to make promises to bring change. For my local party the issues were housing/homelessness, public transport and social care. I understand this exercise was carried out across the country. If only the Labour Party had listened to the issues that concerned its members (and I suspect a lot of other local people) things might have turned out differently. On the present showing I'll vote for Kier Starmer as the party needs to move away from the far left views which seem to be very unpopular. The person chosen should be the one who can best do the job, regardless of sex or where their parents sent them to school.
If Jess Phillips decides to stand I'll listen carefully to what she says, she is a bit of a character and might very well give Boris a run for his money at PMQ.

Unless Long Bailey is leader, she could have him on the front
bench , Shadow Secretary of State for Defence perhaps!

When McCluskey was voted in as leader the turnout was only just over 12%
He received 45.4 % of the votes.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement or overwhelming enthusiasm.

Dismal in fact.

It's all academic now anyway as Corbyn will, presumably, be returning to the back benches.

Voters have had enough.