Sensible discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls

Grandad

You raised the CLP in your post Tue 04-Feb-20 22:18:08

' I believe Keir Starmer has stated much of what the left of the broader Labour movement wished to hear. Allowing the constituency Labour parties (CLPs) to chose their own candidates would very much play into the hands of Momentum as it is in the CLPs that they are at their strongest.'
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I asked you a question subsequently in a post following yours regarding CLPs and raised the matter of the NEC ' Long list ' and the view it was a' STITCH UP ',' UNDERHANDED '.

I appreciate you have been busy at work (noted on another thread) but what is your take as a poster who does understand the NEC workings.

Yehbutnobut Mon 10-Feb-20 13:36:14

Some, in fact very many, are making the incorrect assumption that support for Corbyn, a decent and honourable man, meant support of Momentum. Not so.
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Momentum was formed ' for ' Corbyn.

I agree however many ' returned ' to Labour because they shared his far left view, usually saying they ' left' Labour because of Blair.

I feel that Rebecca Long-Bailey is now in all probability unlikely to win the Labour leadership. Much will depend on how many affiliate members have registered to vote in the election.

If media statements taken from trade union reports are correct the above figure would be somewhat above two hundred thousand which could prove very important to Long-Baileys prospects in this contest.

Momentum are now registered as an affiliate organisation in their own right to the Parliamentary Labour Party, but most of their membership vote in this election will be through the trade unions as I believe they were not registered in time for their membership to be balloted separately.

However, I stand to be corrected on the Momentum status if other forum members know different.

If Long-Bailey wins, Labour won't be in power for years, so it doesn't really matter how purely socialist it is. It won't be able to do anything anyway.

In the end, it has to persuade about 15 million people, most of whom aren't Labour or Momentum members, to vote for it.

POGS, I'm interested in who wins, despite not being a Labour member (and never likely to be). My vote doesn't count, but I'd rather have a Labour government than a Conservative one.

I have not had much time to look up on all that has been happening in the Labour leadership contest in the last week or so. That stated, the one thing that has remained static throughout this contest up and until this point is the fact that the Labour Party cannot return to the so-called "broad church" that people thought it was in the past.

The Labour Party government that Blair oversaw in later years of that administration will not be allowed to be brought back into being, for that administration was not socialist in any form. However, the Broader labour movement in the country has never been more socialist in its views than of the present day.

Therefore should Starmer or Nandy if elected attempt to steer the Parliamentary Labour Party once again along a Blair agenda then I firmly believe that the funding and all other support of the party by the wider Labour movement would very quickly be withdrawn.

The above is the reason I feel that both Nandy and Starmer have been moving towards the left in their statements in recent days.

I support the policies put forward by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell. I am following the leadership contest but do not know a great deal about the internal administration of the NEC etc. So don't feel qualified to comment on their internal workings.
The contest has, of course, been somewhat interrupted by the illness and death of Keir Starmer's mother in law.
Nevertheless I am still taking an interest and listening to the hustings when the sound quality of the recordings is good enough for me to hear.
I know that people like me are accused of being "Corbynisters" or "devotees of momentum", but making those accusations does not make them true.

I am just a normal, average member who is trying to make an informed choice, as I expect are most of the membership.

Corbyn supports momentum

Some, in fact very many, are making the incorrect assumption that support for Corbyn, a decent and honourable man, meant support of Momentum. Not so.

Kier Stammer has won the support of my local LP and they will be giving him their vote.

Iam

I remain surprised how little posters I thought were Corbyn/Momentum devotees are engaged with the Leadership Contest.

That leads me to believe the Labour Party may well be shedding support from those who ' returned ' to Labour because of Corbyn / Momentum and their far left views.

Some damn good politicians fell on their sword because of Corbyn/Momentum and if Labour returns to the Broad Church it once was it will all the better for it.

The power and influence however held by the Corbyn/Momentum team cannot be dismissed it still holds the control/nuts and bolts of Labour.

Starmer is way ahead in votes from CLP's. This gives me hope because many CLP's have a membership that supported Corbyn, or had a rush of Momentum type members after his election as Leader.
When the vote goes out to the membership, hopefully the support for Starmer and Nandy will eclipse Rebecca Long Bailey.

If I were a Tory I would hope the LP chose RLB.so that the Tories could be safe for the foreseeable future no matter what damage they inflict on the country.

As I am not a Tory, but a left-leaning LibDem, I hope they have the good sense to chose Starmer.

Iam 64

It was reportedly said a short time back that there was a query as to whether or not there had been misuse and data rules had being broken by the Long-Bailey campaign.

It was something to do with accessing the Labour Party phone banking system ' Dialogue' and the data information of ' Members phone numbers? ' by her campaign group and Momentum. Happy to be corrected.

The information if obtained could have afforded her campaign/Momentum to contact party members and lobby them on her behalf. Considering the membership to Labour is roughly 500 thousand and then you put Momentum and the Unite Union into the mix she would have a very healthy target audience for her campaign against the other candidates.

Not sure if or what will come out it, might be something or nothing. I certainly don't know but that is my understanding of the issue.

Lisa Nandy has hit back at Momentum too hasn't she for trying to ' smear ' her.

Momentum said she hadn't voted against welfare cuts but failed to say she was actually on ' Maternity Leave'.

It's all very interesting.

POGS I don't know enough to answer the question posed in your longer post.
The allegation that KS's team hacked into Labour's data base is certainly seen by his supporters as a concerted attack by Momentum to derail his successful campaign. KS is not campaigning actively this weekend as his mother in law has sadly died.
KS team deny hacking.
I read some time ago that Rebecca Long Bailey's group had access to the Data Base for reasons I didn't fully understand. Wanders off to consult google.

As there are no posts ' thus far' , I appreciate those who can engage with my view, challenge or give a different opinion may not have seen this thread or not available to comment, however it leads me to ' so far ' surmise my opinion of the ''Longlist ' is accurate.

It is interesting to note Islington North CLP , Corbyns constituency have given their backing to Keir Starmer for Leader and Angela Raynor for Deputy Leader.

A snub to Rebecca Long - Bailey and Richard Burgon and possibly quite telling as they are known to be Corbyn acolytes and are commonly termed as the ' Continuity Corbyn' dream team.

It looks like Starmer has the best chance now unless something happens in the next few weeks and it looks like that could well happen.

Keir Starmers campaign has been accused by Labour of ''Hacking ' into Labour's Data Base.

The games afoot as they say and the gloves may well be coming off, if they haven't already.

I appreciate Grandad has not had time to return to the thread but does any other Labour activist or member have anything to add to my post regarding the NEC ' Longlist' procedure adopted for the General Election?

I am genuinely interested to know for example if other areas of the country were reporting back from their CLP's and considered it a ''STITCH UP ', ' Underhanded'.

Thank you.

Grandad1943 Your knowledge of this area is much better than mine but, in the betting, Lisa Nandy has now slipped back (to 14/1 with Sky Bet), behind Rebecca Long-Bailey at 11/2 behind Kier Starmer, strong favourite at odds-on 1/5. Emily Thornberry is 100/1.

I realise betting odds do not always predict the outcome but, perhaps as often as anything else, they do. When Ed Milliband lost in 2015, the odds were telling the story well before the polls.

Grandad

I will give an example of why I believe the NEC having been successfully controlled by Momentum is viewed as a ' STITCH Up ' by some CLP's.

The NEC ' chose / selected ' one of their own NEC members Claudia Webbe to be the candidate for the disgraced Labour MP Keith Vaz in Leicester East. It is my belief there was also mention at one time she was looking to be a candidate for Coventry but Leicester was the final destination.

Claudia Webbe was at the time on the National Executive Committee and she was a councillor in Islington, Jeremy Corbyns constituency. To be fair to Webbe she was apparently born in Leicester and she did win with a reduced majority but the NEC Longlist was derided by local councillors and members and the local Indian community did not take kindly to having what they saw as a a ' safe seat parachute in ' NEC candidate.

Both Coventry and Leicester CLP's were not enamoured by the NEC decision of using the ' Longlist' procedure brought in by the NEC. Coventry MP Geoffrey Robinson called the selection process out for what it was ' shambolic and underhand nature'.

It is my understanding the CLP's in some areas were annoyed they had no local candidate chosen by the NEC and I gleaned my information from reading news in the Leicester and Coventry areas but I think this was an issue in other areas too.

Happy to be corrected if I have given misinformation.

KS seems to be way ahead of RBL in local CLP choice for leader. Ours has a strong Momentum group, we had a comradely discussion about the candidates, with RLB very popular amongst the momentum group. KS won by a small margin.

POGS, in regard to your above post, as you may well know, the Labour Party NEC is split into several divisions. I believe that is as follows:-

1) The executive and representative MPs.
2) The constituency labour parties.
3)The trade unions.
4) Other affiliate organisations.

In the above, I feel I did read at some time last year that Momentum are strongly represented by way of their members being elected as delegates from the CLPs. That being the case, it would demonstrate how strong Momentums presence is at CLP level to be able to have their members elected onto the NEC in such strength.

I believe I did cut and paste a list in a thread on this forum last year which gave all the CLP members on the National Executive who are also members of Momentum.

I am off to our offices in a few minutes but if I finish early enough this evening I will try to find that listing again POGs.

As stated, I believe I am accurate in all the above, but I too stand to be corrected if others know better.

Anyway, with any luck will be back later, could be much later. ?

Grandad

' I believe Keir Starmer has stated much of what the left of the broader Labour movement wished to hear. Allowing the constituency Labour parties (CLPs) to chose their own candidates would very much play into the hands of Momentum as it is in the CLPs that they are at their strongest.'
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Surely allowing the Constituency Labour Party to chose their own candidates was' stopped ' by the NEC prior to the last General Election? Is Starmer therefore not saying he wants to ' go back to ' the norm of CLP' s choosing their candidates?

How is it the local CLP' s in many areas accused the NEC of a '' STITCH UP ' in favour of Momentum/Corbyn backed candidates over their local choice of candidate, or have I got the that wrong?

I don't necessarily see it as Starmer giving the left 'what they want to hear'.

I respect your opinion and am interested to get your opinion but was the NEC ' Longlist ' I think it's called not for the most part imposing Momentum/Corbyn candidates on CLP's who had made their local choices as to who they wanted to be candidates? It may be the case a CLP had produced for themselves a Momentum/Corbyn candidate but the NEC ' Longlist ' more or less guaranteed Momentum candidates.

Happy to be put in place but I genuinely gained the impression that was the reason behind stopping the CLP's from holding the decision making.

I believe Keir Starmer has stated much of what the left of the broader Labour movement wished to hear. Allowing the constituency Labour parties (CLPs) to chose their own candidates would very much play into the hands of Momentum as it is in the CLPs that they are at their strongest.

Publishing the minutes of the national executive committee (NEC) has been a matter that very many in the broader Labour movement has been campaigning for over very many years. Publication of the minutes of trade union senior committees has also been on that agenda for a substantial period of time.

Jenny Formby In her role as general secretary of the whole labour movement. compiled a report to the NEC in regard to anti-semitism just prior to the General Election being announced. In that, she stated that the sheer size of the movement is the major problem, as racist statements being made by affiliate members are being included and totalled together with direct Labour Party members which has made it a problem that is almost impossible to control.

IF recent membership figures released in the media are correct, direct Labour Party membership is now up to nearly five hundred and fifty thousand, while trade union membership is nearing seven million once again.

However, whatever the situation with anti-Semitism is within the movement it certainly will not be dealt with until at least June of this year, and almost certainly any new proposals on membership organisation will have to go forward to the National Delegate Conference in September.

In the above, I believe that Keir Starmer was indeed making a pitch to the left of the movement due to the success of the campaign that Lisa Nandy has presented up to this point in time.

I feel that the leadership ballot may well be playing out as one between Keir Starmer and Lisa Nandy as Rebecca Long-Bailey seems to be doing her best to rule herself out of the contest if the statements she has made in the last few days are anything to go by.

However, there is still a long way to go in this contest, and I am loving it.

Great stuff, hope they keep it up.

Good posts POGS thank you

At least Lisa Nandy and Jess Phillips prior to standing for the Leadership could say they did warn of antisemitism and Momentum harming the Labour Party.

That's why I will surprised if Lisa Nandy can stave off Momentum who favour Long Bailey as their choice. She deserves to win but oh I wish Thornberry would win.

Very true POGS ??