Trump impeached after historic vote.

But the President has not been impeached has he? Pelosi has refused to send the documentation forward because she knows it wont get through the Senate anyway. Now is that because Congress has been mendacious ( like our remainer Parliament)? Or is Trump actually guilty ..... we dont know because they wont send the papers through.

All this seems to me to be about is a smear campaign. The democrats like the remainers here ( both share an interest in left wing socialism and liberalism it seems) just want to stall the process and leave the President hanging without a proper trial. That needs to be said .

It reminds me of the chap I went to College with who was accused by a girlfriend of sexual assault. She reported it to the college authorities but refused to report it to the Police. The college authorities suspended the chap for three months and investigated but found no evidence However,because she refused to go to the police the chap could not properly clear his name and lived with the smear as long as our year group was in college.

Now some thought he was guilty as hell ( as someone said about Trump on this thread) others thought he was not guilty at all and the girl had made it up. She was a victim or a fantasist depending on which camp you were in. But the fact is that the girl could have gone to the police and had it properly investigated and had the chap been properly guilty he would have been charged and taken to court where a decision as to his guilt would have been made. In the instance that didnt happen - just as Pelosi wont send the papers to Senate.

I am pretty sure if the democrats really had evidence they would have been to the Senate quicker than a lightening bolt as it is they have little more than hearsay and accusation on which they have acted and made a decision he is in their biased eyes guilty ( because it was only the democrats who found in favour of impeachment).

This is the democrats using a system for their own ends and it is a misuse of the constitution. It stinks.

varian, historically impeachment itself has never created an advantageous situation for any president- It will cost "him" votes even if squashed-

The purpose of the impeachment process itself is to protect and preserve the Constitution- It doesn't matter if the process costs Democrats votes as a result- Their collective decision as representatives to impeach was a duty that voters had "already elected" them to do-

It is very good to read your posts rosecarmel as you can tell us a lot about the way US politics is seen from over there, rather than over hear.

I have heard it said that everyone accepts that The Republican majority will ensure that the impeachment charge is squashed, and as a result, paradoxically, the impeachment is likely to backfire on the Democrats and cost them votes. Do you think that's right?

It boils down to both parties calling the kettle black, both have a reputation of being shady and underhanded and both support maintaining shady as their status quo above and below the radar-

Trump ran as a Republican but even if he ran as a Democrat it wouldn't have mattered much- He did what no prior President had, he captured the attention of the impoverished, the forgotten vast expanse of individuals and families that former administrations allowed to fall through the cracks-

But the fact that he captured their attention kind of doesn't matter either- The booming economy doesn't even come close to trickling down to the middle no less to those on the bottom or further down than that, in cracks- It was no different with Obama- Both baited their supporters with hope then switched-

Got locked out of my email account. This was the new verification process.

His well-recorded attempts to prevent investigation of the claims against him are also enough to make impeachment inevitable. He is not exempt from investigation if there is reason to suspect him, and trying to avoid having those suspicions proved or disproved is suspect behaviour.

There doesn't even need to be a "quid pro quo" Just the unequivocal fact that Trump asked for Ukraine to investigate Bidens, his closest rival in the upcoming election, is enough evidence in itself.

Sorry .. Lichtman ..

"My followers have been asking what the impeachment means for 2020. It turns the scandal key against @realDonaldTrump bringing him closer to defeat. But the election remains too close to call now." - - Allan Lichtam

I'm horrified and shocked that some of the Tories on here (I disagree with their politics BUT they at least are OUR politicians you support) actually seem to be supporting Trump!

An attacker of women, a ridiculous liar, figure of mockery and disgust world-wide, racist, homophobe, self aggrandising and all round vile man.

Have some discernment, for gods sake!

Being retired, I had the opportunity to listen to hours of impeachment testimony during the actual hearings. If you can be as patient as I was, please bear with me and draw your own conclusion:

First article of Impeachment: Soliciting foreign aid to investigate a US citizen for personal gain

Claim: That Trump's request was innocent ('perfect') because there was no 'quid pro quo'.

Official telephone transcripts record an unequivocal request for Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. Joseph Biden is Trump's strongest political rival in the upcoming 2020 election.

Claim: That there was no 'quid pro quo' (conditions attached in exchange for a Biden investigation).

Fact: The tax payer funded Military aid to Ukraine had already been vetted and approved by the State Dept. when July 26th phone call with Zelensky happened. After the Zelensky call, the Military aid to Ukraine was suddenly canceled by Trump without any explanation and without going through proper channels...likewise he later cancelled the official (long scheduled) White House meeting with Zelensky .

Fact: British American, Dr. Fiona Hill of US Foreign Service, testified she had been forced to juggle two conflicting directives; her official role which was to further National Security in the Ukraine and abroad and that she was instead directed to pursue a second unofficial one (headed by Trumps personal lawyer, Rudy Guiliani) which according to Dr Hill amounted to nothing more than a domestic errand driven by the President's own personal agenda which was to continue pushing the Biden investigation in order to discredit Joseph Biden.

At some point (can't recall if it was Dr. Hill or someone else who testified) it was mentioned that Trump would be satisfied if Ukraine President announce publicly, at official White House Meeting, that there would be an investigation into the Bidens. That it didn't matter to Trump for them to actually investigate, only that Zelensky make the public announcement during Zelensky's (much desired) White House meeting.

Claim: That impeachment is baseless and based only on 'hearsay' because Democrats have an agenda and they hate the President

Fact: Initially, some of the testimony was indeed based on hearsay....other testimony was based on irrefutable facts.

Fact: After the whistle blower came forward and Trump realized he was in trouble, he released the Military aid and he gave a press conference stating that it was a perfect phone call, that there was no 'quid pro quo' and that Zelensky should do the 'right thing'.

Impeachment article number two - Obstruction of justice

Fact: Numerous Documents and Witnesses were subpoenaed in anticipation of impeachment hearings. White House (under presidents orders) has repeatedly denied access to documents and witnesses have been prevented from testifying.

Fact: Some key witnesses who can confirm most of the 'so called' hearsay (Morrison and Bolton come to mind among others), were prevented from testifying by the White House and we have now learned, they will also be prevented from testifying at the Senate hearings.

As one Democrat stated: If the President's own men are not being allowed to defend him under oath, then how can we believe he's innocent ?

Dr. Hill also testified that the Russians were working successfully to change the narrative that they had meddled in the 2016 election and to make it look like it was Ukraine. They are also claiming Hillary's email server was hacked by Ukrainians.

There is so much more going on here that I hope someone will be able to write a book when all is said and done. I happen to think he's guilty ten times over (if it walks and quacks like a duck......), I also agree with many of you that the system is so broken and corrupt, I fear he will get away with all of this and with Putin's thumbprint is all over it...every decision Trump makes benefits Putin (reversing policy on Venezuela, removing troops from Syria, and meddling in 2016 US election among others.

Hunter Biden joined a very dodge company for very dodgy reasons. He should have stayed well clear. I don't have a NYT subscription but this lays it all out: www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-gas-company-burisma-holdings-joe-bidens-son-hunter-explained-2019-9?r=US&IR=T

Increasing his chance of winning is spit in sea compared to holding him accountable for abuse of power and obstruction of justice- Its is our elected representatives responsibility, regardless of party-

Trump asked his constituency during his speech at last night's campaign rally, ""Do you feel like we got impeached?"" It's a perfect example of how he grooms his following and makes them feel included- He's a history of carrying out the same shtick in business, pulling the wool over the eyes of anyone tempted to think they stand a chance of "getting ahead"- And sometimes they do- Often they didn't- And while they got stung, snake-like Trump slipped away unscathed -

Yup. Stinks!

Any juror who states beforehand he or she had already made up their mind would not be allowed to serve on a jury here...and presumably in the US.

But one rule for us and another for Trump?

Stinks.

And in impeaching him the Democrats are risking to increase his vote in the upcoming election in November 2020! We shall see.

Despite any evidence to the contrary, Trump will always believe he did nothing wrong because of the nature of the beast. I dread to think what he will be like if he is found not guilty. Most of us have a conscience, empathy, etc. The difference with Trump is that he truly believes whatever he says and does so will feel very injured that anybody could question him. It makes him a truly dangerous and I'm just glad that he and my mother never had children!

Elegran was correct when calling the vote historical- It's the responsibility of every American representative to uphold and protect the Constitution when threatened-

The vote to impeach has more to do with placing an indelible mark on the American historical timeline than it does the impeached president- In a broader sense it represents a shift in the way in which the country is being governed and holds parties accountable for their actions or lack of- This impeachment in particular may mark where the U.S. began to lean towards supporting a dictatorship, of serving under a president instead of with his or her administration-

Trumps base support is formidable- The fact that he simply took notice of them, which is enormously more than prior presidents who ignored them completely, means more to his supporters, many of which are living in poverty, than the fact that he lies to not just them but everybody-

The solid economy is smoke and mirrors- You can check the numbers yourself at the Federal Reserve website in their quarterly report PDFs- Debt has continually risen, meaning that the economy is being driven by consumers living beyond their means- Few have taken notice of the pricing bait and switch, where the cost of an item increases slightly but not due to inflation or tariff- Amazon is notorious for it-

The jobs report is similar- Many people have 2 of the jobs created or reported, some of them hold 3- And it's necessary for them to in order to survive- But the jobs are created in "pockets", they are not being created nationwide- The impoverished sectors have remained impoverished during the Trump administration- Taken notice of, yes- Otherwise, unchanged-

“And it's worth pointing out that Biden's son probably was up to no good in Ukraine.”
Not true. There are several articles, including on Wikipedia, to explain, here is one:
www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/business/media/fact-check-biden-ukraine-burisma-china-hunter.html

Donald Trump asked President Zelensky to investigate, or to appear to investigate, Hunter Biden in order to damage Joe Biden, who he saw as his strongest opponent in the upcoming elections.

There's no question that Trump is guilty. But Republicans won't vote down their own man.

I have followed the process of the impeachment of a president closely and I have to say that the evidence as stated so far is very strong AGAINST the president. If you are innocent of charges, you bring out all the evidence to support you, you allow witnesses to put forward the evidence that supports your stance, and you are above board with what you have done. THIS is not happening with this president. He is hiding everything behind bluster, lies and nastiness. I feel that more evidence will appear that could blow him and his many lies out of the water,

"The Bidens have already been investigated by the Ukraine government (well beforehand) and slurs against them found to be baseless."

The whole nub of this business is that Joe Biden, while VP, lent on the Ukrainian government to dismiss the prosecutor who was investigating his son, which duly happened, even though he had a long track record of rooting out the corrupt. The new prosecutor conveniently found nothing amiss.

Trump shouldn't have tried to do the same thing again -- pressure Ukraine to re-open the investigation for personal gain -- but they're both as bad as each other in this matter, and the American public can see that.

And it's worth pointing out that Biden's son probably was up to no good in Ukraine. That was an open goal for the Republicans.

As said this plays right into the hands of Trump. Obviously the Republican-controlled Senate will not find against Trump. Meanwhile Republicans across the USA get to paint the Democrats as those attacking their President.

Pelosi was backed into a corner by the weight of evidence against Trump but she should have stayed firm.

For a rounded view on whether the American economy is “thriving” www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-45827430