Actually, Far North, I meant that sentence to be a bit sarcastic.. (we need a 'sarcasm' font 
)
I'm pleased that it's working for your relative.
Changing from a Manual car to an Automatic after driving manual for around 50 yrs
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Rough sleeper gives birth to twins outside wealthiest Cambridge college
(445 Posts)Rough sleeper gives birth to twins outside wealthiest Cambridge college. Woman delivered premature babies in front of Trinity College on Monday
A homeless woman gave birth to premature twins while sleeping rough outside Cambridge University’s wealthiest college.
The woman, believed to be about 30, gave birth outside Trinity College. She was helped by members of the public, who called an ambulance, according to reports.
A witness told Cambridge News she had seen the new mother and her two children wrapped up in blankets inside ambulances when she cycled past at about 7.15am on Monday.
“They were all in the ambulances by the time I cycled past,” she said. “My workmate was first on the scene, and luckily Sainsbury’s was open early that morning and she ran in there for help.
“I’m hoping she gets given somewhere to live and the babies are ok. With what people are doing right now with Corbyn’s Christmas Challenge [a social media fundraising effort in response to Labour’s election defeat] what happened is very relevant to many people.”
Is rough sleeping getting worse?
The government claims rough sleeping in England fell for the first time in eight years in 2018, from 4,751 in 2017 to 4,677. But the body that oversees the quality of official statistics in the UK has said the number should not be trusted after 10% of councils changed their counting methods. Rough sleeping in London has hit a record high, with an 18% rise in 2018-19.
The numbers of people sleeping rough across Scotland have also risen, with 2,682 people reported as having slept rough on at least one occasion.
Shelter, whose figures include rough sleepers and people in temporary accommodation, estimate that overall around 320,000 people are homeless in Britain.
What’s being done about rough sleeping?
The government’s Homelessness Reduction Act 2017, which places new duties on state institutions to intervene earlier to prevent homelessness has been in force for more than a year, but two thirds of councils have warned they cannot afford to comply with it. In 2018, James Brokenshire, the housing secretary, announced a one-off £30m funding pot for immediate support for councils to tackle rough sleeping.
How does the law treat rough sleepers?
Rough sleeping and begging are illegal in England and Wales under the Vagrancy Act 1824, which makes ‘wandering abroad and lodging in any barn or outhouse, or in any deserted or unoccupied building, or in the open air, or under a tent, or in any cart or wagon, and not giving a good account of himself or herself’ liable to a £1,000 fine. Leading homelessness charities, police and politicians have called on the government to scrap the law.
Since 2014, councils have increasingly used public space protection orders to issue £100 fines. The number of homeless camps forcibly removed by councils across the UK has more than trebled in five years, figures show, prompting campaigners to warn that the rough sleeping crisis is out of control and has become an entrenched part of life in the country.
Is austerity a factor in homelessness?
A Labour party analysis has claimed that local government funding cuts are disproportionately hitting areas that have the highest numbers of deaths among homeless people. Nine of the 10 councils with the highest numbers of homeless deaths in England and Wales between 2013 and 2017 have had cuts of more than three times the national average of £254 for every household.
What are the health impacts of rough sleeping?
A study of more than 900 homeless patients at a specialist healthcare centre in the West Midlands found that they were 60 times more likely to visit A&E in a year than the general population in England.
Homeless people were more likely to have a range of medical conditions than the general population. While only 0.9% of the general population are on the register for severe mental health problems, the proportion was more than seven times higher for homeless people, at 6.5%.
Just over 13% of homeless men have a substance dependence, compared with 4.3% of men in the general population. For women the figures were 16.5% and 1.9% respectively. In addition, more than a fifth of homeless people have an alcohol dependence, compared with 1.4% of the general population. Hepatitis C was also more prevalent among homeless people.
Sarah Marsh, Rajeev Syal and Patrick Greenfield
East of England ambulance service told Cambridge News that paramedics went to the scene just before 7am on Monday. The woman and her children were taken to Rosie hospital, a specialist maternity hospital on the outskirts of Cambridge.
Research by the Guardian last year identified Trinity as the wealthiest of all the colleges in both Oxford and Cambridge Universities, with published assets at the time of £1.3bn.
A crowdfunding campaign set up to raise money for the woman decried Cambridge as a place of “extraordinary inequality”. Jess Agar, who started the fundraiser, wrote: “Imagine giving birth alone on the pavement, in the shadow of the richest college in Cambridge.
“Whether we are religious or not, many of us will be familiar with the Christmas story of a mother who gave birth to her child in poverty, seeking refuge in a stable. This is the reality for many people living on the streets.”
Contributors have so far donated more than £9,000.
uk.yahoo.com/news/rough-sleeper-gives-birth-twins-144402965.html
Have human rights got anything to do with impeding the help that can be given to the homeless?
I’m sure I will be shot down for suggesting that HR could have an impact on how much help can be given.
It’s just that it seems to me that authorities can’t do what they think is in the best interests of the individual if the individual says no.
If housing or shelter is offered and refused what more can be done? Sometimes this is because the homeless person has mental or addiction issues. I just can’t see how that person can be helped against his/her wishes.
I am putting this forward as a point to consider, not suggesting that the homeless are rounded up and put in an institution.
Certainly it happened ‘in our liftime’ ( mental health/institutions) how many very autistic children does anyone remember from childhood for a start?
They were in residential schools, or for adults mental institutions.Anyone exhibiting out of the ordinary or dangerous actions either to themselves or others ( their families usually) were admitted, certainly for periods of time.
I wouldn’t want to go back to that, but equally ‘care in the community’ doesn’t always work well at all.
It’s a point to consider Pamela because it’s almost certainly the case now.
I don't know just how old you are LG but the (thankfully now discarded) phrase "educationally subnormal" was used in the 1944 education act which made it the duty of all Local Authorities to provide an appropriate education for all children. The provision of this took place in many ways and indeed, it still does but not all children by any means were only catered for in residential institutions. From that Act onwards schools have catered more for the child rather than expecting the child, whatever their challenges, to fit the school.
As for Autism, I believe this was not coined as a separate diagnosis until 1943 but that does not mean it did not exist! It could have come under an umbrella term such as idiocy, developmental retardation and even occasionally, mistakenly, schizophrenia.
Care in the community can work well but it has to be available and appropriate in order to do so.
If this isn’t contrived then I really hope all is well and the lady finds a decent home to help her darling bunnies bless them al
I never said that all children with mental health problems were in residential schools, or institutions but very many were in the 1950’s and 1960’s.Certainly those deemed difficult to manage.
Quite a few blind children were put into residential care too, and also deaf ones.
It was a different time.Care in the community is often simply not good enough ,sadly.
Flower apparently council housing had been given to the woman who had twins, and her partner, but it seems that for whatever reason, they were not using it.
How many are "very many" LG? What percentage of the population does it constitute or the percentage of those with disabilities? Why would you want to go back to those days? We like to try and get better care not worse, generally.
I’m sure I will be shot down for suggesting that HR could have an impact on how much help can be given.
Interesting Pamela. So do you believe you have the right to do what you want with your own resources when you want to? I don't know you but let's assume you have red hair and that I got into government and gained a great deal of power. And let's assume that I believe the worst of red-heads were feckless and stupid and I used that lowest common denominator to set up a law which took away the freedom of all red-heads and put them in an institution. That, while maybe helping one or two takes away the freedoms of far more.
There are circumstances where you can help someone against there wishes but you have to show a lack of capacity to make that decision and each decision after that. You would have to complete a lack of capacity test each time you took their rights away. If you are mentally ill you would have to be sectioned and that can only happen under the rules of the mental health act.
Personally, I am very glad that you can no longer get someone "committed" in order to get hold of their money, etc., as certainly did happen in days gone by. But perhaps you wouldn't mind.
GracesGranMk3
Anyone with diagnosed mental health issues used to be housed in institutions, sometimes for life, sometimes for extended periods etc.
That is simply not true
It actually is true. During nurse training I visited two large mental institutions. These were situated in Huddersfield and Halifax.
Later I lived near the Halifax institution. When it was closing, this would be late 1980s or early 1990s a small unit was built in the small town I lived to house the most needy, other patients were housed three or four to a terraced house. It was very sad to see these people wandering around totally lost with little or no structure to their lives. I befriended some and noticed how soon they seemed to die. In the institutions they had structure, they had small jobs (where possible), they had friends, they felt secure, were well fed and had rooms and warmth.
After this experience I do feel that this environment was a good place for some vulnerable people, far better than the little or nothing available now.
Rather than making someone do what you want, why don't we ask them what they need?
I simply do not believe you or that this is true or something for which there is any proof Joelsnan. You need to be careful about what you agree with. Some posters are not known for being factual.
That is not to say there were no institutions - where young girls could be sent if they were thought to be in "moral danger" for instance but why are you still arguing a point which is clearly wrong? Your personal history is fascinating but irrelevant. "Anyone" with a diagnosed mental health issue was not institutionalised. Some people were.
First, lack of capacity can only be given by the Court of Protection. I know this from recent experience.
Secondly, everyone else, whatever their ability or problem is deemed to have the final say over what is done with their life unless the CoP has said they have no capacity for either (or both) health and finance.
So it not easy to say the problem could be solved by putting those with various problems in small residential home. If they say no they don't want to go, then they don't go and what happens then.
If people choose to live independently then the support and care should be provided but in these times of Council cuts that is not always possible. There is a demand for one bedroom homes with possible support being given by a warden who lives nearby and checks daily on the residents, this use to happen but no longer.
This lady who gave birth may well have been given a place to live that was totally unsuitable, I have seen first hand some of the places that are offered and believe me you would not want to spend even one night in them. The street is a far safer option.
GGM3
Rather than making someone do what you want, why don't we ask them what they need?
If many of these people were in a position to know what they really needed they would not be in the position they find themselves in.
You seem to misunderstand educational, psychological or chemical mental issues which more often than not render the person incapable of making rational decisions, either for the short or long term.
Joelsnan is right. I worked in a large psychiatric hospital in the 60s and many patients felt safe and protected there. Care in the community was a brilliant concept but did not have the funding to support it. With the best will in the world there are times when people who suffer from a mental illness need security and treatment in a hospital suited to their needs. Of course the large hospitals had problems but they were not as bad as they are often painted.
GracesGranMk3
Oh for goodness sake, what planet do you orbit?
I am not a liar.
Check out Storthes Hall Hospital, Huddersfield and Stansfield View hospital, Todmorden, Halifax.
And when you have read up on these hospitals, come back and apologise.
immigration plays a part
How can anybody know this? It has nothing to do with being a Leftie btw.
It's almost as if the old " they come here and take our jobs/houses troupe" is being trotted out.... Surely not?
Good post Joelsnan and based on your own experience. I'm afraid some posters on here simply put their heads in the sand and refuse to believe what people have seen with their own eyes if it doesn't match their own opinions.
I think Care in the Community meant.....close everywhere and cut services.
Chestnut, some posters believe there are fake beggars in Windsor and all travellers are nasty......
First, lack of capacity can only be given by the Court of Protection. I know this from recent experience.
I'm sorry BoB but this did make me smile - almost certainly totally inappropriately, I'm afraid. I sometimes think if we have any more people who "don't do facts" on here I will know it from experience too!
Now I have a different experience with my darling Mum's dementia. With Dementia the following is true:
The person who is expected to do the mental capacity assessment is the person who might have to do something in the person's best interests. Here are some examples:
Care workers may need to decide if the person is able to choose whether they have a bath or not, or what food they have.
Family members may need to decide if the person is able to choose to go out with them.
Doctors or nurses will need to decide if the person can consent to treatment.
A social worker may need to decide if the person can make a decision about staying at home or moving to a care home.
As you can see, any member of the care team may have to make an assessment of a person's mental capacity.
Generally, it has been a group of people who have made decisions and we have always been included. This seems to be talking just about dementia.
www.scie.org.uk/dementia/supporting-people-with-dementia/decisions/capacity.asp
Joelsnan is right.
No, she isn't sodapop. And now she has gone off on one about lying. I most certainly never said anything of the sort. I, unlike some, am very careful with the meaning of my words.
It is certainly true that these institutions existed but that is not what either LG or Joelsnan are saying. They are insisting that "Anyone with diagnosed mental health issues used to be housed in institutions" That is a very long way from the truth. Some people were, not "anyone".
I agree with all you say about underfunding in the community. I am also only too well aware that "there are times when people who suffer from a mental illness need security and treatment in a hospital suited to their needs." But this still does not mean "Anyone with diagnosed mental health issues used to be housed in institutions" This is all I was objecting too but the efforts and attempts to show it was something else entirely have been heroic - but just straw men arguments.
I see Joelsnan is asking for an apology. I am really not sure what she thinks it would be for. Who knows with people who throw facts around as if they don't matter. I rather think, but will not wait for it, that it is I who am owed the apology for what has been inferred about me personally. But then that is where some of our posters always end up, isn't it?
GracesGranMk3^
To save you a little research time
books.google.ae/books?id=g3p_DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT41&lpg=PT41&dq=the+closure+of+Stansfield+view+hospital&source=bl&ots=kP_dd7S7Sa&sig=ACfU3U2z3u7w8kCpcgjhSozgBnHk9xhiuQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj05oLz6tjmAhVxSxUIHeU7Dq0Q6AEwA3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20closure%20of%20Stansfield%20view%20hospital&f=false
Joelsnan is absolutely right. I also worked in a large long stay institution for people with Learning Disabilities. When I started there there were almost 1000 'residents'. It closed in the mid 90s and people moved into a lottery of accommodation. Some was better than others but many former patients were lost and lonely outside the familiar setting (despite its many drawbacks). As I then worked in the community I met so many ex patients who anxiously asked after people who they had grown up with and lived with all their lives before being split up 'for their own good'. Many needed medication for the anxiety and stress of their scary new lives. It was very sad indeed and the mortality rate was higher than expected.
While carrying out assessments before discharge we found many people who should never have been there. Eg women who had had illegitimate babies decades before (often after abuse) but were then called moral defectives. After so long living in the institutions they had become institutionalised.
I personally identified many people with autism and went on to train colleagues on how to manage the anxiety that led to so many of their behaviours deemed 'challenging'.
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