Food Banks and Poverty- was Nye right?

The government is very sneaky. When it talks about the massive benefit bill (about a sixth of the Treasury's income), It doesn't highlight that the majority of it is paid out in state pensions. It doesn't mention that what most people consider to be benefits are actually a very small part of the total amount.

And that's great Tooting but why assume others don't work as hard and as responsibly?

If anything is taking a toll on the benefits bill it is the state pension. Never have so few people had to pay for so many. I am not suggesting we can do away with it but if we are suggesting that those without jobs can go without money to live on or have to be vilified before they get less than it is possible to live on, or that their illness or the level of their disability is to be decided by people with no relevant knowledge, then perhaps we should be looking at who actually needs a state pension?

If you go around creating a culture of discrimination, bullying and harassment where "benefits" we all pay for are concerned, perhaps this should include the state pension. So maybe we should all have to apply and be treated as if we were low life's who never knowingly took responsibility and obviously did not do all they could to improve their lot as they are now sponging in great numbers, after a life-time where many could afford to live off one income, only to end up with our pensions being paid for by a generation who can't.

How old are some of the people on this thread? My late mother was born in 1931 and worked full-time apart from the time I was born until my younger sister started school. Even when my sisters and I were young, she still did part-time jobs.

I don't know any woman of my age who didn't work when their children were at school. Many of us took breaks for maternity leave and that was it.

I know you well enough to realise that post was written tongue in cheek GracesGran and it's not a serious suggestion, but you do have a serious point.

I am absolutely astounded that somebody who has not worked since having children has the nerve to lecture other people.

There has never been a generation where women didn't work growstuff but in every generation, there have been some women who didn't. Post-war a lot of brain-washing went on to "encourage" women to stay at home and it worked to some extent. There were lots of nudge factors. You were encouraged to feel you were a bit further up the social ladder if you could afford for the "wife" to stay at home. I wonder if that is where the "Mrs Bucket" stereotype came from.

It's amazing that after fighting the views that encompassed "Kinder, Küche, Kirche" our own government tried to persuade us that the same order Hitler promoted with men in charge, protecting their family and women there to serve and nurture them was the right one. And it worked for quite a while but by the mid-70s, I would guess, as we needed more people working, feminism had been on the march again for some time and many women were better educated than they ever had been in such number it all changed again.

growstuff ....my late Mother ( who died early) was born in 1912.
We are all different ages on here so bound to have different memories.

A relative of mine in his late 50s has recently been released from prison. Determined to turn his life around, he has taken a low-status job, now works 50+ hours per week and has managed to get a flat. He has received a lot of help from the Probation Service. Yes there are a lot of problems out there but sometimes we have to help ourselves (health permitting of course).

That includes mental health, and with 1 in 4 people suffering issues, it's easy to see how they can get lost, overlooked, dismissed and 'punished' in a way.

My mother didn’t work, no brain washing, she didn’t go out to
work, I think the fact her mother died giving birth to her gave her the joy of mother and child/children relationship.She was unpaid carer for elderly family members. So worked very hard .

Funny old world...my Grandmother, a Victorian ( I kid you not) worked as a dinner lady, taking in washing and ironing. My mother worked part time. I cobbled together something that kept us together as a family, with no help and a partner who worked shifts.

I don't really know of any women who just stopped working.

hettymaud good on your relative! I hope it works out and I'm glad he's had help.

Many prison leavers don't fare well though, which is regrettable as many end up back inside.

My mum didn't work, so it came as quite a shock to her when she was widowed young and got herself a job.

I think it was really important to my dad to be able to "keep" his family.

I know that strictly speaking it is termed a benefit. But I feel it can only be termed a benefit for those who didn't contribute. And even if we paid for those who retired before us as one poster said, it is still paid for.
I just don't like how its perceived. My stepson told me his generation are paying for our big (?) pension. Actually those retiring now have a bigger pension. My BiL age 65 gets £175. Anywag that's off topic.

Anyway!

Sorry.

Of course state pension is a benefit. I have paid a lot more contributions than I need to draw a pension, but currently my pension age is 67 and there are reports of it increasing to 75.

IF my pension was an entitlement, based on my contributions, I would draw my pension at a reasonable age (I accept not 65, BUT 75 is not reasonable).

I didn’t work , my husband worked shifts , then went on CID, and I loved being with our daughters. They were 5 & 7 when he died so certaintly couldn’t work then, my daughters were too young and had to work through their grief. I did work when they went to the high school , was given all school holidays off on half pay and if they were home ill the nuns had no problem with me staying home to care for them

How did you survive after you were widowed if you didn't work? Nice to not have to. Most employers would give you a couple of weeks off work at the absolute outside maximum.

Most employers would also not pay you for time off work with sick children. Of course, those on zero hours contracts would have no sick leave OR leave with sick children.

You have been a lot more fortunate than most.

I do get GracesGran's point though. There are a lot of pensioners.?

Goodnight. I hope you all have a good 2020.

I think that a lot of people who have paid NI for decades object to being told that the pension is a benefit. It is galling to think that something we were told would be paid to us on retirement because we had paid for it is now being sneakily reclassified as a benefit, with its connotations of a payment that is made to those who can't provide for themselves. We thought we were providing for our old age by paying in, but the goalposts have been moved before our eyes.

I honestly think that this is deliberate Newspeak to make it easier to means test it, so that yet again, those who have worked and make some sort of provision via an occupational pension will be subsidising those who chose not to contribute by not working and paying NI, who will be the ones getting a pension they didn't pay for. Ironically, these are often the people who could afford not to work when their children were young, so it would be very unfair if they get pensions that are denied to those who did pay in, as well as paying for childcare etc.

Yes, if the system continues young people will pay our pensions, but we paid the pensions of the generations before ours, and (in my generation at least) this included paying for a lot of women who retired at 60, despite not having worked or contributed at all. People may be living longer (although that trend is reversing) but it certainly seems as though the number of women working is much higher than it was when I was a child, so there are more people paying into the coffers.

Both my grandmothers worked and my mother worked. I was enormously grateful when my ex left me with three boys to bring up that I had qualified as a teacher and was able to earn my own living. It saved our family, we weren't rich but we managed. Happy New Year to all

I REALLY resent having paid so much NI and getting no pension. I even paid Class 3 contributions while working overseas to ensure my pension was fully covered.

As it stands, I feel my class 3 contributions should be refunded.

I think you may have missed this Doodledog

Use of the word “benefit” for retirement pension (latterly known as State Pension) has always been classified in law from the time of the 1946 National Insurance Act, which applied from the inception of the National Insurance scheme.

No one has reclassified it. What has been done is the word has been made a derogatory one and now those who use it in that way don't like it to be attached to anything the government pays them.

My employers did GagJo they were nuns and very kind to me and daughters . I wasn’t working before and when my husband died,

Surely no-one receives a pension they didn't pay in for do they?

I am missing the point about occupational pensions too, Doodledog, subsidising state pensions for people who paid nothing in. Occupational and state pensions are separate.

I've read it twice, but it is late so if I misunderstood please excuse me.

GracesGran Has the term 'benefit' always been used as it is now, though? Genuine question. I don't remember people being 'on benefits' until relatively recently - there was 'the dole', or 'social security', but I wonder if 'benefit' is a more recent usage, which may well use a word that has been used in passing in the past, but not as the catch-all it is now.

I certainly don't think that my mum sees her pension as a benefit in the sense of a handout, even though she left work at 23 when she was pregnant with me, nor my grandmother, who also got a pension at 60.

This is probably because it has not been means tested, and so has been seen as a right after a lifetime of work (whether in the home or also in the workplace) allowing older people to claim it with dignity and without being made to feel like a drain on resources.