Food Banks and Poverty- was Nye right?

I am missing the point about occupational pensions too, Doodledog, subsidising state pensions for people who paid nothing in. Occupational and state pensions are separate.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant that if someone has an occupational pension, the chances are that they would not qualify for a state one if it became means tested. This would mean that the fact that they had paid twice (both to the occupational pension and in NI contributions) would be used against them, whereas someone who had not paid in anything, because they did not have an occupation, would qualify for a means tested state pension.

I never used a childminder or nursery to look after our children. As I said, I gave up work just before my first child was born.

We had two mortgages because we bought another property as an investment having seen how the housing market was rising.

Even then we were thinking about ways to provide for ourselves in retirement, and property seemed the way to go.

We had to make a lot of sacrifices to save the deposit but once we bought the house we put a tenant in and the rent covered the mortgage.

Property has been a good investment over the years.

Well, bravo to you JenniferEccles. I expect a lot of us really appreciated that story of hard work and self-sacrifice.

Yes, I understand now, thanks Doodledog

I think this happens in Australia but I hope it never happens here.

Occasionally words fail me at the breathtaking ignorance of some people! I use the word ignorance not in a pejorative sense, but in amazement that people can be so unknowing of the wider context of many other people’s lives. There are people, many people, who live lives of desperation that are not of their own making. I could very easily have been one of them, but for sheer luck.

Yes, I have worked hard, but then so has my older brother, yet our paths in life diverged when he became epileptic and I did not. His (old fashioned) medication dulled his brain and left him learning disabled; nevertheless he worked as a gardener on basic pay. Our lives diverged further when he became unable to work due to having a crumbling spine. His disability is due to no fault of his own and yet without a huge amount of support from his family he could easily have ended up homeless.

In addition to his spinal problem he currently has a brain tumour, recently had a heart attack, has diabetes - and yet still has to go for medical assessments to see if he’s entitled to PIP payments (used to be DLA). My brother doesn’t smoke, but he goes to the pub once a week for a pint and to play darts (he’s in a team). It’s not a secret that he’s on Benefits so I would not be surprised if people make assumptions about his lack of an obvious disability and decry the fact that he can ‘afford’ to drink.

We never know what life is going to throw at us.

Thank you Tooting. At last, someone that reads what’s written rather than looking for where exception can be made. Apparently having a robust view to achieving a better life is being rude! Perhaps it’s very rude to wonder whether someone is returning her pension to the treasury.... at least I have conviction rather than a tendency to contradict myself.

Nothing wrong with try to achieve a better life. BUT there needs to be an acknowledgement that the vast majority of people, particularly now, do not have that ability. Plus you're cutting out the disabled, the zero hours contract people, those needing UC to top up wages that are not living wages.

I am fortunate enough to be trying to plan to retire at 60 without a pension. But I am one of the lucky few who has some options. I voted Labour to try to help those a lot less fortunate than myself.

I agree with you Callistemon that we never know what life is going to throw at us. That's why we pay National INSURANCE Contributions. Help is supposed to be available without stigmatising when life throws a few bucketful of poo at us. Nobody would be called a scrounger if they claimed on their car or home insurance.

GagaJo Occupational pensions are becoming a thing of the past. A number of private schools have stopped enrolling their staff on to the Teachers' Pensions Scheme and some academies are considering following that route. By law, state schools can't opt out, but there soon won't be many of them left (if any).

There aren't many occupational pension schemes around which are anything like as generous as the ones in the past. That affects public service and private pension schemes.

I wondered about the term 'benefit' when it was introduced in the 1930s the term used was Unemployment Benefit but it was always known as "The Dole'. I wonder if not using benefit made it more acceptable and we are now seeking to make it unacceptable?
One of the effects of the change in pension schemes may be the mobility of NHS staff. Long term staff on the old pension scheme lose out if they move areas-eg NHS England to NHS Scotland as they have to move from the old scheme to the new one.

Some good points made here.
I hadn't thought of more women working now and contributing.
It's true that if people have not contributed hey get paid a benefit anyway. And means testing would work in their favour. And an occupational pension is often worth little as it loses you pension credit.
Depressing subject.

Grannyactivist so sorry to hear about your brother. He has been so unlucky.
It would be a harsh world if people were criticised for or were denied having some enjoyment because they are on benefits. What kind of life would that be.

Nobody would be called a scrounger if they claimed on their car or home insurance.

Very good point!

JenniferEccles
We had to make a lot of sacrifices to save the deposit but once we bought the house we put a tenant in and the rent covered the mortgage.

I didn’t want my children brought up by a childminder or a nursery. It was a struggle especially as we had two mortgages but we managed.

??

I'm sorry annepl but I can't see what it is about Jennifer's post that you're questioning?

annep1 I Googled your brother and found his story in the local press. I can't get it out of mind and am sooo angry that people still can't/won't believe that kind of thing happens. My very belated) condolences and I wish you a Happy New Year!

Growstuff sorry but it wasn't my brother. He died on Christmas day, but not this year. Sorry I should have made that clear. I tend not to give too much detail. Sounds like another sad tale though.

Oldgimmer they weren't struggling to pay two mortgages.

It was an old story, but was identical to the details you had given. I appreciate you don't want to write any more. Yes, yet another sad tale. How many more have there been?

annepl I must be reading Jennifer's post differently from you, then.

I read it as a person who'd rather struggle to pay an additional mortgage to secure some kind of income in retirement and did so as an active choice.

So just sensible financial planning?

Maybe she was fortunate to have had the choice, but we don't know her full circumstances.

Seems to me that JenniferEccles was ‘prudent’ - just what Aneurin Bevan wanted folks to be!

Of course, lots of people can buy a house and get second one which they rent out. It's so damned obvious really. Why isn't everybody doing it?

I will tell my AC and they will respond forthwith.

In my immediate family there is an older couple who also struggled to pay two mortgages, but they did it by both working all hours of the day and night into their eighties. Why did they need a second home? To house two relatives with severe mental illness who would otherwise most likely have ended up dying on the streets. They would never have been able to afford a second mortgage without two incomes.

If the government had provided the necessary security for people with enduring mental illness my family members could have relaxed and enjoyed their retirement years more.

Oldgimmer I think it's a great idea to have a second property as long as you charge a reasonable rent and the tenant can stay as long as they want. Same as council housing. That is my personal opinion. But that's another topic.
I agree. We all need to plan.

But either the rent covered the mortgage or they struggled to pay both.

Yes, that's another topic. .

We don't want start landlord-bashing now, do we?