Food Banks and Poverty- was Nye right?

No sorry, not buying this bleeding heart nonsense. Help is out there. It just is. Nobody has absolutely NOTHING. No food. No money.

If you have one pair of shoes and they break, what do you do?

How do you get bus fares to interviews? How do you go with poor clothing? How do you get there is you are in constant pain and you have had nothing to eat for 24 hours plus?

I know I am wasting my time trying to explain.

ExperiencedNotOld Mon 30-Dec-19 18:04:13

That is probably the worst post I have ever seen on here. It could have come out of a pre-1939 handbook, and you seem to be going the same way with your categorising of people UG. Perhaps we should start measuring sculls and noses to make sure these people are fit to live.

It does sound one heck of a fu*k up to have no shoes, no food, no transport ... inkycog

For what's it worth, I think the benefit system needed an overhaul. A one stop shop idea is sensible. But it was not properly piloted and applied cruelly.

In itself, it's not a bad idea Inky but how about we do this so we know everyone has enough to live on. They may have other challenges and issues and we do need to build more homes but, we could ensure that, like those with wealth, everyone would know they had enough to fall back on.

We could start by deciding what that is. Well, the government has decided that no individual should pay tax until they are getting £12,500 in earnings as they need that to live and they are now saying they are going to raise NI to the same amount so they seem to be sure. Let's say that is what everyone needs for security and let's say we pay each adult that amount regardless. We pay it regularly at just over £240 a week. This would be unconditional, each adult would get it.

Obviously, we would take away the personal tax allowance as you are now being given it.

We would do away with NI so tax might go up but we would see what it actually is. NI is for in-work benefits (including pensions) so no need now as we all get our £240 a week.

We would have to think of a name for this type of Universal Credit which is paid regularly, to the individual, with no conditions attached and cannot be withdrawn.

Mmm. It seems someone got there before us and called it Basic Income or Citizens Income or we could go for Real Univeral Credit

Joelsnan

I am so sorry. That is awful.

I could tell you the back story to both the people I mention but it's pointless. It wasn't their fault. They made mistakes, used bad judgement and very very quickly found themselves in a big mess.

I met a man who had slid. He had no shoes, no money , no transport, no food, no nothing. It makes me sick

Now why would this be, do you think? Help is out there. Why didn’t he access it? Drugs? alcohol addiction? MH issues?

I also met a lady who had made a bad choice, mixed up with a drug dealer. Her health ruined, all hope gone

Sorry but you illustrate well what I referred to up thread. These people will ALWAYS be with us. The feckless, the stupid. There is no legislating for it. We can’t as a society CURE all ills. Never could, never will.

While many erroneously post about Boris being "far-right" the reality we have seen is he is actually a liberal Tory. So I suspect the next 5 years will be ensuring money goes to those areas that voted Tory for the first time, and the Tories will seek to inhabit nearer to that Blairite "zone" that Labour should have been.

Meaning that people who voted Blue, may stay Blue.

Big trouble then for Labour.

Thanks for the history lesson, Tooting. It's not as though I have a History degree with the 19th C Poor Law and the growth of social welfare comprising part of it.

I haven't seen any reports of people starving to death in the UK and I don't think I will.

For heaven's sake! Do we have to show you the bodies for you to care?

Yes but until you have slid, you know nothing.

A sliding scale.....please.

I met a man who had slid. He had no shoes, no money , no transport, no food, no nothing. It makes me sick.I also met a lady who had made a bad choice, mixed up with a drug dealer. Her health ruined, all hope gone.
Tell them about your sliding scale.

UC is a sliding scale. I’ve just looked on the gov.uk website.

On top of the basic allowance, you might get additional allowances including:

child element
childcare costs element
limited capability for work-related activity element (LCWRA)
limited capability for work and work element (not available after 3 April 2017)
carer element
housing costs element.

MaizeD. All governments over time have failed these people not just the Conservative goverment over the last 9 years. History shows that there is always a certain number of people at the bottom of the pile. There shouldn't be but the reality is there is. The residium as our Victorian forebears called them. The problems leading to poverty were different yet sadly the same. Famine, infant mortality, too many children, low life expectancy, insecure employment, disability, absent or heavy drinking fathers, domestic abuse up to a huge factor in poverty. Tudors brought in Poor law and parish relief, Victorians the tyranny of the workhouse. As a child in the 60s I can remember slums and bomb sites, shell shocked men from the wars talking to themselves in shop doorways, alcoholic and meths drinkers living in bus shelters homes with no hot water or baths and families struggling to make do and mend, hand me down clothes sourced through jumble sales. Today the population and the poor have increased expedentially. The concept of UC was probably fair in theory, where it fell down is in its execution and delays. The public also take a dim view of those who abuse benefits which has probably led to more complex application process. There has to be some partnership between Government, local authorities and charities to support these people and help them. It's a sad reality of life and history shows us there is no simple answer.

joelsnan
I know this is no consolation for your loss, but I do know one very decent person in the Southend benifit office who fights tooth and nail for people who are/ were in your sons situation, even working in her own time.

Jennifer, I await your reply on other points I have raised. It is not about optimism or being a gloom bucket, all around us we see evidence of poverty. Children with stunted growth and stunted height.....possibly not in the Home Counties, but many elsewhere.

The so called " austerity" programme hasn't helped. Do you have any empathy for anybody ?

Because MaizieD the stupid experiment that George Osborne promoted ’austerity’ has officially ENDED. Many services were cut or decimated.

Boris will spend. He also intends to include the Labour heartlands in his ‘One Nation’ approach. Moves are already underway.

Watch this space.

Urmstongran I fear the optimistic amongst us are wasting our time.

As I have previously said, there are far too many on here absolutely determined to see the negative in everything.

They will NEVER give the government a chance to prove itself, preferring to carry on flogging their doom laden predictions.

I would hate to have such a pessimistic outlook on life.

Given that people grumble about coping on the basic state pension, how would they manage on less than half?

So how would you all live on £73.10 a week? Given that claiming benefits has to be done online, how is a mobile phone a luxury? I hardly ever watch TV, so could live without that, but I would find it extremely difficult to live without a phone of some sort and the internet.

So, please, how would you make ends meet on £73.10, even if you were lucky enough to be awarded the full amount?

Tooting ??An excellent post.

Joelsnan so sorry to hear that, having a DS or DD with mental health problems ( especially those that lead to suicide)
Is a terrible thing indeed.

Baggs...yes, it would be paradise, not just progress, where no individual ever suffered.

Just what makes you believe that, Ug?

Please give me some examples of what he has said, and what was in the tory manifesto that makes you believe that.

Every single assessment of possible Brexits has concluded that the nation will be poorer. So how is Johnson going to set about improving the lot of the poor?

MaizieD I truly believe Boris will do great things for our society. Call me out in 5 years if I’m wrong. I’m happy to give him a chance.

Not at all trisher my post was just demonstrating that some people in our society will always need help. And my worrying about it all won’t change jack.

State provided benefits, whether the old age pension or ‘dole’ was designed to support a very basic existence of food, shelter and some heat. The amount paid was initially increased in the late 60s/70s by Harold Wilson to curry favour with the electorate whilst allowed it to pay for some ‘nice to haves’ alongside subsisting. Couple this with the blurring between what’s needed and what’s really a want (mobile ‘phones, tv, etc) it means that some people now struggle to make the right choices and achieve that basic subsistence.
I accept that not everyone is fitted to make the wisest of choices but - linking time growstuff’s comment implying that Universal Credit is linked towards working to a more positive future we shouldn’t be accepting the development of a near permanent underclass expecting the charity of others.

We have to rely on a government to look after its people.

So you voted for the government that has inflicted this misery on our fellow citizens, has no intention of doing anything to alleviate it and has given a knighthood to its prime architect.

Sorry, Ug but your post has made me feel extremely nauseous...