Cultural discrimination?

Thanks SueDonim

A very good book that encompasses much of the history of the ME is The Silk Roads by Peter Frankopan. It really sets world history in a new position.

www.amazon.co.uk/Silk-Roads-New-History-World/dp/1408839997/ref=sr_1_1?hvlocphy=9046855&hvnetw=g&keywords=the+silk+road&hvadid=259048277493&qid=1578605297&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3My89rr35gIVmKztCh0DSQjwEAMYAiAAEgJ62_D_BwE&hydadcr=28148_1724781&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&tag=gransnetforum-21&hvtargid=kwd-299372924110&adgrpid=52848123813&hvrand=12483386638491740201&sr=8-1

Callistemon you are absolutely right of course but I suppose what I was trying to say was that it is the Greeks who are credited with being civilised and the Persians as the barbarians (although many of the Spartan practices were barbaric) and that is the viewpoint passed down to us. So that the history we learn and are taught is always slanted towards that.
lemon please don't rub it in, missing Carthage still rankles with me.
I think it should be possible to teach a module which at least introduced other civilisations and broadened the outlook. I think it might well help with everyday relationships as well.

sites relevant to our history

But, if Mesopotamia was supposedly the Cradle of Civilisation, that is surely the history of us all?
Yes, we were invaded by the Romans so they are part of the history of Britain but other cultures eg the Egyptians, the Greeks, are probably no closer to our history.

We learned from the astronomers, the mathematicians, we use the numerical system rather than the Roman one.
What *is! ^our history?

Islam is a relatively new religion historically speaking, before that Persians practised Zororastrianism? but allowed their conquered peoples to follow their own beliefs.

History did become more boring towards 'O' level so I elected not to take it at 'A' level!

However, when my DC were at senior school what they were taught seemed even more boring.

I shamefully admit i know very little of middle eastern culture and history. While being taught that the area was the cradle of civilization, i have not heard of most of the sites mentioned here.

Most of our history lessons covered ancient Egypt, Romans and Greece, after that we studied quite a bit of Canadian history. After Grade 9 (at approx 14 yrs old) history is an elective study. After a semester of having to memorize battles dates of WWI I opted for extra Geography classes.

Not liking to generalize, i would say most of my peers are not well versed in middle eastern historical sites. The younger generation probably less so. Shameful to admit, I must start studying again!

You have it right Callistemon the Greek city states including Sparta ( the 300!) held off the Persians at the pass for a few days, but were betrayed so that the Persians were shown a way to get behind the Greek lines.

You’re also right that we didn’t learn anything about China or South American history ( that I can remember) although we did a little about India, which interested me ( still does) I have an Indian friend who doesn’t know much ( or care much) about the history of her own country, which surprise me.
Still, not everyone is fascinated by history.

It's a pity if this is not being taught now.
We were certainly taught that Mesopotamia was 'the cradle of civilisation'.
We were not taught Indian or Chinese history, nor that of themSouthmAmerican peoples.

However, if history is taught well, it should give pupils a thirst for knowledge which they can follow up if they wish.

trisher I thought the Persians were the invading army at Thermopylae and that the Spartans and other Greeks held them off despite being heavily outnumbered but were eventually overcome.
The Persians were the invaders.

My memory may be a bit hazy though.

trisher What a shame you missed Carthage! We went there round about 1992. The whole holiday was fascinating, we stayed in Monastir but visited many places, including Tunis.
In Carthage you could wander around amongst the ruins and people were even sat on fallen columns, which surprised us.
Visiting Egypt in the early 1970’s we were aware that it wasn’t the safest place for tourists, and indeed, the next year quite a few were killed at the valley of the kings site.
I think it was 1973/4 when in Israel we witnessed a ‘dogfight’
In the air over the Golan Heights, and shortly after, the war there kicked off again.
You have to excercise caution, but would never do anything if you stayed at home.I have seen some amazing historical sites
In Europe and the middle east, which I am grateful for.

No school can possibly manage the teach its pupils the whole of the world's history, at least properly, there would not be the time. As a result, most schools throughout the world teach their countries history and some world history where it is relevant.

But schools cannot possibly teach everyone everything in every subject. What school is meant to do is get you started and then leave you interested and knowledgeable enough to go out and find out about the rest for yourself, either while still in school or after you have left.

Mind you, when my mother was teaching she suggested to an enthusiastic pupil that he go to his local library and see what he could find out about something, only to have an irrate parent come to school to demand what right she had to suggest her son found out about something on his own. It was the school's job to teach him everything he needed to know.

I knew bits sbout Moorish and Persian history but must admit that it is stuff I have found out for myself.
lemon I certainly think it is becoming more dangerous to visit sites. I tried to get to Carthage a few years ago and just before I went there was an attack, so it was closed. Tunisia was interesting and the mosque and remains of Islamic civilisation I saw were amazing. But shortly after I was there there was the beach attack. Iran was opening up but will now close down again. It is regrettable. But I think the cultural discrmination is still applicable. The Greeks defeating the Persians at Thermopylae still casts its shadow over our thinking. The Persians were less civilised or so we believed. Much the same happened with Spain and Islamic culture when the Christian religion over threw it. I think it is time we re-evaluated and started teaching more about other civilisations.

Who knows Callistemnon? Some Americans think our village churches are "ancient".

I wasn't ever taught about Persia or most of the Middle East and North Africa, apart from Egypt, at school. China might as well have not existed in ancient times.

We used to learn about ancient cultures years ago but I don't know what is on the curriculum now.

We studied 'From Ur to Rome' in the first year of high school and that Iraq and Iran is where we were taught civilisation as we know it began.

People won't know so much about these historical sites because they do not have the opportunity to visit them as they do visit such sites in, for example, Italy and Greece.

So much of the world's culture has been lost over the years due to wanton destruction, surely he would be restrained from destroying such history?

Trump is a mindless idiot, he acts without thinking and to my mind is a danger to the world. He wouldn't know cultural sites if they hit in the face, probably doesn't even know the name of any.

I really don’t think the US would carry out destruction of cultural and historical sites, whatever DT may have tweeted.
No trisher I don’t agree that there is a sort of cultural discrimination from anyone in the West about this.
There are lots of places that would be fascinating to see, but the lands themselves too dangerous for tourists sadly.
I saw quite a few of them in the early 1970’s ( not that it was all that safe, even then!)
Somebody should take DT’s mobile away so that he can’t tweet in the wee small hours!

. . . it adds a layer of cultural anihilation to the already poisonous mix.

GG13 You say that If DTs threat stops this political situation escalating and stops needless loss of lives I haven’t got a problem. - but by threatening to destroy these historic sites, HE is escalating the problem. This threat will stand and be remembered, even if it has the short-term effect of pausing aggression by Iran. Coming after the killing by the US of a top general, it adds a layer of cultural

No good can come of this, in any way at all. The man has no common sense. He thinks acting the bully secures peace through fear. It doesn't, it just turns up the heat under the pressure cooker.

I heard that as well growstuff.

I don't know for sure that this is true, but I was told that the reason Trump threatened 52 sites is because 52 American hostages were seized from the embassy in Tehran in the 1979. If it is true, it's unbelievably childish.

You can tell a man by the company he keeps. This is the company Trump has chosen if he goes ahead with his threats.

It started with the Nazi Baedeker raids during WW2 (Baedekers were The Lonely Planet books of their age) and the Germans used them to choose their targets for bombing important historic towns and national cultural icons in London.

Then their was Taliban who destroyed the rock-carved Buddhas at Bamyan because they wished to eliminate all of the non-Islamic statues and sanctuaries in Afghanistan.

In their foosteps came ISIS, who eliminated most of the ruined city of Pamyra and many other mosques, museums and other culturally important buildings.

And now Donald Trump comes and ????

Personally I think Trump has zero chance of stopping needless loss of lives now...

If DTs threat stops this political situation escalating and stops needless loss of lives I haven’t got a problem.

If however he was to carry out this threat it would be a dreadful cultural/historical loss to mankind.

I don’t know how many people knew anything about ancient sites such as Persepolis trisher - but then, how many know of Paestum or Gigantia (which is older than the pyramids)?

I certainly was told as a young person that “the East” was the “cradle of civilisation”. I knew about Persepolis, but, am ashamed to say, didn’t know anything about Palmyra (except that it was ancient) until the news of the elderly scholar who decided to remain behind to try to protect it. Only then did I bother to find out anything about it.

It is, however outrageous to deliberately damage these places, whoever does it. So, so, sad.

MerylStreep would you like to comment on the OP?