shock for retirees in Portugal

Maw- I am not worked up about this at all. Just sharing info I had read today. And yes, I consider it normal to apy taxes- but there are some countries people choose to go to because they don't. Malta too. And Portugal recently.

“Taxed there , not “here” “

I just can’t get worked up about this.
As I see it everybody has to pay taxes somewhere so if you choose to retire abroad, surely you expect your income to be taxed here? Or should it be taxed at source, which puts an end to retiring to tax havens - goodbye Monaco or Cayman Islands, hello Bognor Regis.
In any case income tax only forms part of the taxation system anyway, so indirect taxation such as VAT/purchase tax or the equivalent must apply to everybody.
How else are essential sources funded?
So what is the relevance of this thread?

Well jura, if some will leave or not go there, just because they don't want to pay taxes like the rest of the country, they'll be no great loss to Portugal will they? Very few countries can afford free loaders these days.

The surprise is because it is a big change from the current situation. I know several people who are retired in Portugal, or were intending to retire there. Partly for this reason, partly for others. Will be interesting to see if some will leave or not go there.

As said, nothing at all to do with me, or anyone close to me.

Got it in a nutshell notanan. How on earth could anyone possibly be surprised that taxes would have to be paid by all citizens? Portugal isn't a rich country and, as you say, with so many of the younger generation having emigrated to other countries, where else was revenue to be raised?

Makes sense. Portugal has a huge brain-drain, so with their young people earning and living abroad they need to collect their taxes from the demographic most able to stay! Without taxes they wont be able to develop the country in ways that will enable their young people to stay work and live more.

yes, same in Italy- they have to be lived in and not holiday homes, or rentals.

Houses were for sale in the UK for £1 for the same reason. Not to stop villages dying but for renovation as homes and not for rent.

Italy, of course. As said, nothing to do with me. Never been to Portugal, apart from Madeira. Just passing info.

We certainly do pay taxes where we are living now- perhaps just a tad less than in the UK, but with a terrible exchange rate.

Many regions of Ialy are offering houses for sale for 1 Euro - to stop villages dying.

Irony growstuff.

It's a return to nineteenth century economics.

One of my favourite museums is the People's History Museum in Manchester. It has lists of how much a handful of people were worth - the sums are mind-boggling. Meanwhile, the majority of people lived in squalour.

Well, yes, it does. Monaco produces almost nothing, but its population is per capita some of the richest people on earth. The wealth creates jobs for the cleaners, care workers, servants, people running restaurants and shops, etc, etc.

Singapore is similar. The people who own capital/wealth are very rich, but the country produces next to nothing.

The people paying income tax are the workers who are actually doing the work for the very rich people.

There are people in the Conservative party, who want to turn the UK into a mega version of Singapore. That's why some of the keep going on about free ports and all the rest of it.

What you end up with is a handful of people who are mega-wealthy, but produce nothing, and the rest who actually do the grafting and pay the taxes.

Philip Green?

The same argument would apply to him too

So do people living in Guernsey, in Monaco etc.

If there is a defence, then it should apply across the board to all.

Reminds me of that Nationwide advert:

"Well, that particular rate is just to hoik people in"

But they are paying tax Callistemon. They are paying tax on just about everything they buy and pumping wealth into services and employment. Income tax actually produces only a small amount of a country's income.

I was not thinking of businesses, a different matter, but of people who have moved there and do live there having retired. One in particular has in fact invested vast sums in his home city in the UK.

I am no tax expert, but I think the problem with Guernsey is that many of the people who register in Guernsey don't actually live there. There are addresses in Guernsey where hundreds of businesses are registered. The people owning the businesses don't actually live there, but use the tax free status to avoid tax. Possibly that's what's happening in Portugal, which is why the Portuguese government has decide to close the loophole.

PS. I don't actually know. However, I can see that a way of encouraging more capital/wealth into the country is possibly backfiring. Maybe that's why the Portuguese government is changing the tax regime.

The Portuguese economy was in crisis in 2009 and it is still one of the most unequal places to live in Europe.

Is it fair for comparatively wealthy people to live in a country and not pay tax?
Regardless of the fact that they may provide employment, this is a wrong which is being put right.

Sorry, my French is a bit rusty but I got the gist of it.

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but people who relocate to eg Guernsey are vilified but people with high spending power who were encouraged to retire to Portugal and paid tax neither there nor in the UK, but now will have to, should receive our sympathy?

I am having difficulty understanding why one is so wrong and a cause for contempt and the other is a cause for dismay.

Or have I misread it?

I don't understand your point Chewbacca. Of course, immigrants were contributing to the economy via indirect taxes and whatever other taxes Portugal has.

Presumably the Portuguese government has decided that raising taxes from income and investment tax is more efficient in the present circumstances.

It will hit some people hard and possibly some will decide to leave the country, but (unless they're total fools) I expect that possibility has been factored in.

It's almost impossible in any country not to pay taxes. In the end, taxes are a means of redistributing wealth and, for some reason, the Portuguese government has decided that wealthy immigrants should pay more. I don't know much about the Portuguese economy, so don't know why that decision has been made. If wealthy foreigners leave, it could increase unemployment in the service sector and affect retailers who sell to foreigners. It might also affect property prices.

The Portuguese want people who live in Portugal, on a permanent basis, to contribute to paying towards the infrastructure of the country via tax? How very dare they! What on earth are they thinking of? Roads, hospitals, nursing homes, police, ambulance services don't need paying for surely? The Portuguese should 100% pay for these. After all, its not like ex pats use any of those services is it? beggars belief