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shock for retirees in Portugal

(70 Posts)
jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 16:14:31

they will now have to pay tax- as previously they were exempt.

GagaJo Fri 10-Jan-20 16:17:27


jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 17:33:59

Retirees from the EU we previously exempt- but EU retirees will have to pay too, so perhaps not Brexit related?

Baggs Fri 10-Jan-20 19:19:41

I presume you mean UK tax, jura?

sodapop Fri 10-Jan-20 19:25:31

Not sure what you mean jura2 are you referring to UK or Portuguese taxes.

Hetty58 Fri 10-Jan-20 19:29:09

It used to be exempt for ten years, then a small amount of tax to pay. Has it changed?

jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 19:36:36

Apparently so.

jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 19:43:06

for newcomers however, not those already settled there.

Mrst1405 Fri 10-Jan-20 19:46:18

Rubbish, you pay tax in which ever country you are residant in for 183 days or more. I pay more in Spain than I would do in the Uk7.

quizqueen Fri 10-Jan-20 19:50:01

If people don't pay tax, how are countries supposed to fund their services!

jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 20:29:34

What do you mean 'rubbish' - Portugal is not Spain ! In Portugal, retired expats used to be exempt for 10 years (so most did not pay tax, neither in UK nor Portugal.

jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 20:37:54

From 'Courrier Expat' sorry in French only:

''Désormais, les retraités étrangers qui s’installeront au Portugal devraient être imposés.
Offres d’emploi à l'international

C’est un débat régulier au Portugal, relancé ce vendredi par le Jornal de Negócios. “Les retraités étrangers qui s’installent au Portugal devront payer des impôts”, annonce en une le quotidien économique portugais. À ce jour, ces derniers en sont exemptés en bénéficiant du statut de résident non habituel (RNH). Un régime fiscal mis en place en 2009 pour attirer les étrangers à fort pouvoir d’achat, qui leur permet de ne pas payer d’impôts sur leurs pensions durant dix ans, ni au Portugal ni dans leur pays d’origine.''

In short, a new tax system was started in 2009 to encourage retired foreigners with hish spending power to settle in Portugal, where they didn't pas tax either in Portugal nor back home - is being over turned.

jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 20:42:00

sorry shoud have erased 'Offre d'emploi à l'internation' after title.

M0nica Fri 10-Jan-20 20:43:28

I cannot see any problem. All governments are entirely free to change taxes as and when they will. It is what governments do.

We have a holiday home in France. When we moved there, after 20 years, our house could be sold without paying any capital gains tax, that has now risen to over 30 years. So what. The French government was entirely entitled to change this.

jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 20:50:31

The fact they are entitled to do it, does not mean it will not seriously affect some people- as the goalposts change.

jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 20:54:42

This is not about people with holiday homes, but people who choose to retire there permanently.

WadesNan Fri 10-Jan-20 21:18:08

jura are you suggesting that people with sufficient capital to retire to a different country should not pay tax? That they should enjoy all the facilities of the country they move to without making any contribution?

growstuff Fri 10-Jan-20 21:25:40

Presumably it was to encourage relatively wealthy people to live in Portugal. I expect they had to pay VAT and other taxes, so they were bringing money into the country, spending it and contributing to services and boosting employment on service jobs.

In the UK, personal income tax contributes only 25% to the Treasury's income.

M0nica Fri 10-Jan-20 21:27:41

jura tax changes always affect people, some for better some for the worst. Taxes are always changing in every country

If you choose to retire abroad, you should take all these things into account and realise that something like a no tax regime is one thing that is most likely to disappear.

jura2 Fri 10-Jan-20 21:37:07

Wadesnan and Monica- I have no horse whatsoever in this race - it does not affect me at all. And was just passing on the information I read today.

Yes growstuff, this was it I believe. These people would provide employment, building, tradesmen, farmers, shopping, cleaning, restaurants, etc, etc, etc.

Chewbacca Fri 10-Jan-20 21:42:18

The Portuguese want people who live in Portugal, on a permanent basis, to contribute to paying towards the infrastructure of the country via tax? shock How very dare they! What on earth are they thinking of? Roads, hospitals, nursing homes, police, ambulance services don't need paying for surely? The Portuguese should 100% pay for these. After all, its not like ex pats use any of those services is it? beggars belief

growstuff Fri 10-Jan-20 21:52:11

I don't understand your point Chewbacca. Of course, immigrants were contributing to the economy via indirect taxes and whatever other taxes Portugal has.

Presumably the Portuguese government has decided that raising taxes from income and investment tax is more efficient in the present circumstances.

It will hit some people hard and possibly some will decide to leave the country, but (unless they're total fools) I expect that possibility has been factored in.

It's almost impossible in any country not to pay taxes. In the end, taxes are a means of redistributing wealth and, for some reason, the Portuguese government has decided that wealthy immigrants should pay more. I don't know much about the Portuguese economy, so don't know why that decision has been made. If wealthy foreigners leave, it could increase unemployment in the service sector and affect retailers who sell to foreigners. It might also affect property prices.

Callistemon Fri 10-Jan-20 22:52:29

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but people who relocate to eg Guernsey are vilified but people with high spending power who were encouraged to retire to Portugal and paid tax neither there nor in the UK, but now will have to, should receive our sympathy?

I am having difficulty understanding why one is so wrong and a cause for contempt and the other is a cause for dismay.

Or have I misread it?

Callistemon Fri 10-Jan-20 22:54:05

Sorry, my French is a bit rusty but I got the gist of it.

Callistemon Fri 10-Jan-20 23:05:02

The Portuguese economy was in crisis in 2009 and it is still one of the most unequal places to live in Europe.

Is it fair for comparatively wealthy people to live in a country and not pay tax?
Regardless of the fact that they may provide employment, this is a wrong which is being put right.