Poverty in the UK - disappearing according to Boris

I always stress that those in genuine need, the sick, the disabled, should of course be helped by the Welfare State until they are able to return to work, as indeed they already are

And those who can never work?

And gracesgran and growstuff - I agree with you. I think some people have no idea, but it’s not worth trying to explain how people live to them.

I see we're back to benefit bashing again.

Ok - there are some people who milk the system for all they can get. They are rarer than you'd think.

There is NOT a typical benefit claimant - all are different. Many experience ill-health after a lifetime of work. Others are bereaved or abandoned by others.

A "typical" benefit claimant these days is in work, maybe full-time work, whose wages are so low that a claim for UC is necessary to cover essentials and to ensure that children are not adversely affected by poor terms and conditions.

It's a sad indictment of a first world country that this scenario is considered normal.

....and it seems that usually GN lets you get away with a lot growstuff
You may have had bad luck/ bad health and so on in life, but that doesn’t negate the fact that those who have worked hard,
And done well by it do deserve it.I haven’t read any posts on this thread that say that those in need shouldn’t get any help.

The insults, are ( as usual) being directed at non left wing posters, with no justification at all.Twas ever thus on GN.
Since we have a Conservative government with a huge majority, we will be seeing these threads for the next five years, maybe even the next ten.

To answer the OP, I doubt any PM truly knows what it is to be
Poor, but there is nothing wrong with Universal Credit ( most
People agree with that) but the way it was introduced with the long wait was long.
If earning a bonus affects that, then it does, you have to have a cut off point somewhere.

Typo, wrong, not ‘long’.

I am trying very hard to understand what is wrong with working extra jobs, to earn more money to enable a better life for your family, as opposed to relying on Universal Credit to top up your money.

I have said repeatedly on numerous threads on this subject that those people who are unable to work for health reasons physical or mental and who have lost employment through no fault of their own should be able to access the safety net of benefits.

There is nothing wrong at all with it GG13 and most people know that.?

“as opposed to relying on Universal Credit to top up your money”

This just shows limited understanding of the system or world of work these days.

As for ‘there’s nothing wrong with UC’ the DWP itself rang me when my son came out of a long stay hospital & said ‘we have had a meeting here to try and work out how we can keep him on ESA and avoid UC - this is what you need to do’ (& I have been forever grateful to them - they got him onto the last group that will be switched, so making life easier for a few years).

grannyg people cannot claim UC just to top up wages without there being strings attached.

All UC claimants are assessed according to how much work they can do, even those with health problems and dependent children.

A claimant will sign a commitment to look for work or undertake extra work. It is no longer possible to "just" work 16 hours a week and expect the state to cough up the rest. The strings are tight, and breaking your commitment will mean a sanction.

The overwhelming majority of part-time workers are women with children claiming child costs under UC.

The UC calculation is made each month and is adjusted according to earnings. The Greggs situation is a case in point. The bonus is extra income calculated into UC. So any financial gain is lost in the adjustment process.

I do find the "I'm right about the laziness of others even though I obviously know nothing about the system for those who need to use it" far, far worse than "rude".

It is downright insulting both to the people trying to negotiate a very difficult regime with the worst systems I have ever come across and to those you are supposed to be "discussing" it with.

You do not "listen" and are not prepared to learn. You are just obstinately sure of the truth of your own opinions which would usually be seen as sheer arrogance.

nezumi I'm heartened to hear you've had a positive experience with the DWP. It sounds as though he has, or is entitled to, some form of "protection" which means that he can avoid UC.

As a very general rule it's best to avoid UC if possible for a number of reasons. These are not just financial reasons. It is extremely difficult to revert back to your previous entitlement once you are claiming UC, for one. There is the wait, the advance payment, the deductions you may or may not be aware of, and the claimant commitment.

UC is paid calendar monthly not fornightly or 4 weekly, which can make budgeting difficult. You have to report every change of circumstance, which makes it unwieldy for workers, and almost impossible for the self-employed.

Oldgimmer1 they managed to get him into the group for those with the most severe disabilities. It was difficult because during his time in hospital he had lost a lot of entitlements so as he had to restart claims should have switched to UC then. I was VERY grateful to them. I have no idea who they were or how they knew about him - but it has made things a lot easier for me let alone him (I’m his deputy so do all the admin - am very grateful not to be wrestling with UC on his behalf).

Nezumi65 there is PLENTY wrong with UC.
My very intelligent AC had extreme stress when claiming it. Her MP told me she was dealing with over 1000 complaints.
Its a very unfair complicated system. You obviously don't know the details.
Imo it was designed to save money.
Thankfully AC is working now.


It was designed to save money.

It was designed to save money

Having been an employer for over 30 years, and we still are. We know a fair bit about work, salaries, along with in and out of work benefits.

I was quoting a previous post annep1 - I know how hideous UC is.

Perhaps GG13, we should turn it on its head and make the employer apply and do the paperwork so the employee gets enough income to live on.

Obviously, the employer would then have to show why they cannot afford to pay a proper living wage.

Let's face it you know exactly how it all works and could sort it in an afternoon for anyone needing it.

ladymuck couldn't have a better username if you tried!

My parents worked hard, I worked hard, in fact at one point my husband and I were quite wealthy comparatively .... then my health went, and now I am asset rich and VERY cash poor - in a hole with no way out. Your perspective changes when this sort of crap happens to you. I now look like shit, feel like shit and half the time I am covered in shit - I hope it doesn't happen to you, but if it did I expect your shit would would come up smelling of roses anyway ....

Netzumi65 so sorry. I've just read your posts. That should have been aimed at Lemongrove who says most people see nothing wrong with UC. I don't know anyone person who thinks its ok.
Apologies again.

I should have stayed off as I promised myself.?

person ( I'm having a bad morning!)

No worries annep1!

I have worked hard, came from real poverty and now am comfortable, financially. Not well off, but I can pay my bills and I have a roof over my head. Do I 'deserve' it? NO MORE than any human deserves to be fed and housed

I really don't think some of you understand how pinched the benefits system is now. It is IMPOSSIBLE to cheat the system. What happens now, repeatedly, is that people in genuine need are turned away OR made to wait months with no money at all. NOT no money for extras. No money to pay rent. Bills. No money to buy food.

The UK no longer has a proper safety net that catches the genuinely poor and needy. The system we have now is designed to make it very hard for people to access it. It is deliberate.

I remember a poster on here, before the election, saying that the poor wanted to put their hands 'in my pocket' (not literally, from the benefit system). That comment made me feel actually, physically sick. That someone VERY comfortably off resented their taxes going to the poor so much that they regarded it as theft.

Let us be clear. Universal Credit is a system designed to make it as difficult as possible for the poor and needy to get help. All the stories we hear about people dying, waiting for a payment, are not a shock to the Tories. The system is DESIGNED to do that. They don't care. The poor can (should?) die for all they care because they are not productive.

If you are warm, fed, have a nice bed and a roof over your head, you (we!) are LUCKY. Many, many British people aren't. This isn't a civilized country anymore. Civilized countries don't treat their people like this.

netzumi it sounds as though he may have, or be entitled to get, a SDP which protects against having to move to UC. Glad for your son, and for you.

gracesgran that's a really good point, actually.

I'd rather see a system that rewards people properly for working than one where poor wages are topped up by the state. There's no incentive, in such s system, to pay decent wages because an employer is very well aware that the state will pick up the tab.

Unfortunately a culture of low pay affects everyone, not just those entitled to benefits, as low wages are normalised.

And - much as I'm a fan of Gordon Brown - I think the introduction of Tax Credits to top up wages has had the unintended consequence allowing employers to pay crap wages.

That’s it! And it was that he didn’t have when he came out of hospital. They told me the order to apply for things to make sure he didn’t trigger a move to UC. Very helpful as I wouldn’t have had a clue.

When he came out of hospital every single benefit was wrong. It took hours and hours of my time to sort. PIP, Mobility, Housing Benefit, ESA, the watersure stuff. It took over 3 months until he was on the correct benefits. Constant phone calls from me. Then I was randomly sent a supposed unpaid care bill from 3 years ago. Had to drag all the info out of storage to find out what had happened (was a correction to an LA mistake - so he did owe the money but only because the had incorrectly calculated it in the first place).

God knows what happens to people like my son if they don’t have someone who can sort out all the above for them. A social worker wouldn’t have done it.