INDEPENDENCE DAY!

I actually feel sorry for some of the bitter posters comments on here, they see nothing good in the UK or in life after the EU, even though they have no idea how things will turn out, negativity rules. A bit sad really.

Lemongrove I do not believe, from what I have read, posted under all your incarnations, that you feel sorry for anyone and you do not even seem to be able to identify what bitterness is. However, all I need to do is read your posts to understand what self-serving smug satisfaction is. You may feel you are on the upward path of the wheel of life but always remember that eventually, you start going down again.

Well I try to be positive, we have to wait and see how the negotiations go, then we shall all see the results.

This really is just another thread for those who were against leaving the EU to insult anyone who voted to leave.

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growstuff......trade negotiations this year, we have left now with no going back.

No going back You do love the empty phrases don't you. Who said? Why not? Are there no conditions which would make more than half the country - it only has to be a small majority of those who choose to vote after all - decide that is the best way to go. If we had to vote whether to or not because people were unhappy that the deal did not live up to the sound bites, just how many current leave voters do you think would bother to vote at all. You need a very good deal to keep all those people on board.

The alternative is that we end up with all the rules and no real negotiating power either with the EU or the USA or both. The UK is quite a big economy. As big as the five smallest EU countries put together. But that means there are a total of 22 other countries making them a larger trading block than we are. Then there is the US, India, China and before long Africa. I hope this government can do it but who knows?

I actually feel sorry for some of the bitter posters comments on here, they see nothing good in the UK or in life after the EU, even though they have no idea how things will turn out, negativity rules.A bit sad really.

Maizie.... as opposed to the god awful mess that Corbyn and pals would have made of it??

We have the very good reasons for leaving the EU here:
Reasons for Leaving

The whole Brexit debate, and this thread, have told me more about my fellow citizens than I care to know. I didn’t realise so many had such a narrow outlook. There definitely must be something wrong with our education system.

I’d always assumed that the nationalistic goings-on at the Last Night Of the Proms were ironic nowadays. They certainly are in the minds of the conductors and performers I’ve known. Now I realise there’s an element that takes it all seriously. Oh dear.

You know what, lemon? At this stage I have no desire whatsoever to go back. I have the popcorn ready to watch the god awful mess the tories are going to make of this...

Give it a few years

For most practical purposes, apart from having any ability to participate in decision making,the country is still in the EU. The real test will come at the end of 2020.

It will certainly be a test of reality for Mr Johnson.

Why should I do all that for you jura2 just because you can't be bothered to do your own research?

You know that is not your reason. Why should Jura have to try and prove your point when you can't do it yourself. Sound bites do not win discussions or persuade anyone else.

I think we just have to accept, jura, that they are repeating soundbites and don't actually have any idea of what lies behind them.

A bit like the vox pops you linked to earlier, really...

growstuff......trade negotiations this year, we have left now with no going back.

You forgot to put the IMHO jura2

No, the country has not left the EU - yet!

For most practical purposes, apart from having any ability to participate in decision making,the country is still in the EU. The real test will come at the end of 2020.

Who mentioned that anyone had the wrong skills or were not skilled enough?

No one did aprilrose. I was trying to have what is commonly called a conversation. I still cannot see why all this was the fault of the EU and not our government. They know which jobs are becoming redundant through progress or whatever. They needed to be on the ball with all this and they simply haven't been. That is not the fault of the EU.

As for other countries immigration policies, the one we keep hearing about is Australia. Isn't that the one we aim to copy? An immigration system designed to bring in more immigrants not less. I am sorry you did not have the upfront money but immigrants to this country are asked for certain levels of earnings, etc. This did not happen if you were going to work in the EU simply because of the reciprocation rules. It has never all been the "fault" of the EU and, if the government don't actually do their job, who will you blame then?

You seem to have a crystal ball jura2 and it shows nothing but bad things! Why don't we wait and see how things will turn out instead of predicting doom and gloom. As lemongrove said, why should we indulge your constant requests for proof of everything? You can find things out for yourself if you're that desperate to know.

Chestnut- you gave those points as facts, and now you say we can't quote examples as it has not happened yet. But take your point 1- just the one. Give examples of those EU Laws that have hindered our progress. Nothing to do with future negotiations. You say they exist, not- so you should be able to make a short list. Surely. Not for me, of course- but just to make sense of your statement. Because otherwise, you are no better informed that those Ladies in the interview- jsut soundbites- with no substance or fact.

lemon- of course the decision will not be reversed, tragically. I am now a Rejoiner, and no longer a Remainer. Nothing to do with recriminations, but about the future of the country - thank goodness my own children and grand-children have escape routes- but I am not selfish and think of all the other children and grandchildren. As Johnson's promises (lies) fall by the wayside, one by one, and those easiest deals ever turn out to be very complicated, and tie us as vassals to foreign powers in a way we never were with the EU (top table in decision making and with many rebates and exceptions made for us) ... more will join. It will be long and painful, and hurt mostly those who voted for it- and they will NOT be happy when they realise it.

Same goes for you Maizie and anyone else demanding ‘examples’.......it’s over!!

Also jura2 nobody with any sense is going to indulge your
Constant ‘give me reasons!’ ‘Give me facts’ ‘Give me, this, that or the other’.......
Why on earth would anyone bother? We have now left the EU, time to move on.

It's the 'time wasting bureaucracy' that gets me every time.

When our trade with the EU has, for years, been absolutely frictionless, no bureaucracy, no checks, no nothing.. Soon to change, though...

The problem is, if no-one can give us a real and convincing example we just think they don't really know what they're talking about..

jura2....you carry on believing that if it keeps you going but most of the country now accept we have left and there will be no going back.
If you ( and any others) keep on hoping against hope that somehow the decision will be reversed, you have a long and bitter wait.
Even Tony Blair, that arch Remainer, has accepted it and now says everyone should work towards a common goal of making a success of it.To carry on with recriminations and
Discord about it ( at our age!) is a waste of a perfectly good life.

Very interesting posts aprilrose but it won't make any difference because they are convinced the EU can do no wrong ?

Yes, I have worked that out. For what it is worth I also read your previous posts where you offered clear reasons for wanting to leave the EU but nothing is ever enough for those of a rejoin mindset.

It always has to be someone other than the EU.

have noticed how this thread has deteriorated into some quite astonishingly ill mannered responses. I have better things to do than be insulted by the perpetually offended re join crowd. Social media sites such as GN is full of liberal and EU minded re joiners. They seem afraid of real life. But I have a real life and have to go and live it right now.

The sun has shone today, the first day of leaving the EU.

Why should I do all that for you jura2 just because you can't be bothered to do your own research? Brexit hasn't happened in a practical sense yet (until next year) so we can't quote examples of something that hasn't yet taken place.

Yes you have

''1. We regain our democratic right to be a self governing independent nation without the burden of EU imposed laws.
2. We will keep the billions of taxpayers' money we currently pay to the EU (of which we only get a proportion back).
3. As a free self governing nation once again we can return to global trade as the majority of the free world does.
4. Without many EU directives businesses will be freed from time wasting bureaucracy and will prosper, which will create more jobs and opportunities.''

but I am afraid none of it makes sense and none of it is backed by fact - just wishful thinking. Give facts, give examples that will prove your points.

For instance 1) give me factual examples of which EU Law is burdening out ability to succeed.

Take your points one by one, and make them more than soundbites.