INDEPENDENCE DAY!

To show our support for EU there's a petition about EU citizens and Boris's broken promise chng.it/BbbThtCK29
Take a look Leavers. He's dropped Eu citizens in the shit. Who will be next?

jura2 Chestnut, the floor is yours.
How kind of you. I have already posted all this further up the thread and repeated to other remainers who keep asking this question. They either haven't been paying attention for the last for years or can't be bothered to read the thread.....or both. I am not going to repeat it all again for you. I suggest you go back and find it.

That pretty much sums up what I have seen on video jura2. Farage belting out the national anthem made me feel ill.

Chestnut, the floor is yours. I have not yet heard a single Leaver who has given any factual argument, backed by clear information- as to how Brexit will make our country and our lives better. No, no- not soundbites, not clichés- FACTS.

So it is with a genuine sense of sorrow that I must report that on Friday 31 January, between the hours of 9pm and 11pm, Westminster’s Parliament Square played host to a static, knuckle dragging carnival of the irredeemably stupid.

Shirtless men clambered over the statue of Churchill. For some bizarre reason, part of the warm-up act involved playing parts of an old Michael Cockerell documentary on Britain’s history with the EU. “F* off John Major, you c***!” shouted one man when the former prime minister appeared on screen. “He should be hanging by his f**** neck!” the same man shouted at Tony Blair.

They absolutely revelled in it. It wasn’t merely that a singalong to “Rule Britannia”, with the words appearing on a giant screen, was infinitely beyond them. (“The azure what? Az-u main? What’s this? I don’t know thi – RULE BRITANNIA! BRITANNIA RULES THE WAVES!” Entirely verbatim quote, that one).

At one point, when they tried to get the crowd to join in with “Land of Hope and Glory”, the three on-stage singers were so poor that the crowd refused to join in in protest.

Nigel Farage was there, obviously, calling it “the greatest moment in our nation’s modern history.”

Well if it was the greatest moment in our nation’s modern history, it is a matter of public record that the best Farage could find to help him usher it in was a very strange man called Dominic Frisby, singing a very strange song called “17 Million F* Offs.”

The list of people “the British told to f* off” was long indeed.

“The IMF, the treasury, Tony Blair, John Major, Femi Weirdo, Jess Philips, George Osborne.” It went on and on and on. By the time it got to the end, the 17 million f* offs may even have found themselves outnumbered. Whether, in fact the IMF, the Treasury, Tony Blair and absolutely everybody else will, in the end, turn out to have been right, and this lot wrong, is as close to a certainty as anything in politics can possibly be.

But for now, we must go through the motions. Dance the dance. By the time the final countdown came you could scarcely get on to Whitehall. There were thousands there. Not many thousands, but thousands certainly.

I’ve listened back now to the sound on my dictaphone that records Britain’s moment of liberation and it goes exactly like this: “Ten! Nine! Eight! Seven! Six! Five! Four! Three! Two! One! FREEDOM!!!! YEAAAASSSS!!!! F**** FREEDOM!!!! WE F**** DID IT!!! F**** FREEDOM!!! F**** DO ONE!! F**** DO ONE!!!!”

I don’t think the Irish we’re searching for anyone - looks like the embarrassing went looking for them.

ITV did track down a charming unelected bureaucrat twitter.com/otto_english/status/1223519293620588544?s=21

How about looking at the facts instead of characterising whole swath(e)s of people. It does look as if Humphries (Humphrys), as an individual, wears that characterisation perfectly, however.

I have listened to John Humphrys for most of his broadcasting life, and believe absolutely that he does look into the facts. He has had more contact with politics, politicians and events, dear boy, than most people, He began his journalistic career reporting from Aberfan, which he said left him with a profound determination to uncover the truth, after witnessing all the lies and cover-ups which
followed that tragedy.
So yes, I do think he has common sense, as well as a great deal of knowledge about all sides of an argument, on which he bases his judgements.

Possibly because they didn't want any reasoned interviews. If they are bitter remainers then it doesn't fit their agenda ?

I have been searching for reasoned interviews from last night. Can’t find any. Seems the Irish couldn’t either twitter.com/brianwhelanhack/status/1223388595723165697?s=21

Very interesting posts aprilrose but it won't make any difference because they are convinced the EU can do no wrong ?
I seem to remember they used to admit it needed 'reforming' except that this never happened and never will happen. Too many snouts in the trough.

I don't think they had to look very hard for them, Chestnut.

Or do you feel that these were edited versions cut from much longer bits of film? (The thought that they 'might' be had crossed my mind...)

It certainly did not stop our government from encouraging other, possibly new industries coming to the areas aprilrose.

They did, some came but not enough. Then again, when the EU offered more grants in the late 1990's some of those who had come went again. Thats how this sort of thing works.

^ Nor did it stop them upskilling the population^

What sort of upskilling are you thinking about exactly? Who mentioned that anyone had the wrong skills or were not skilled enough? often firms that came were taking advantage of a highly skilled population but they really only needed low skills for their work. So upskilling was not a solution.

I noticed someone said that many of their family had moved to the EU. This was suggested to me but unemployment in the EU was far higher than here. No point then. Of course we could have hiked across the EU being paid a pittence for picking olives or tomatoes and sleeping in barns...... much as those coming here do.

Both my husband and I were within a heartbeat of moving abroad though twice. Once when it looked as if we might be able to make a future in the USA. As it happened we found work here in the UK ( in the 1980's) and the second, again in the late 1980's when my husband was in danger of redundancy . We looked at a job for him in NZ . As it happened he was not on the list and we stayed here.

However, I learned a lot about other countries and how they view immigration. In order to move to NZ we had to have not just a job but also £10K per person for those going to move thre and we had to have skills on their skills list. Both my husband who would have had a job before we went and I were in professions on that skills list but finding the money as youngsters was a killer. As it happens we would have been able to look to family for it - not all can do that.

But of course now I am too old for that. Besides, I have family and I care about my family, old and young.

So go out and find the thickest looking people you can amongst the crowd and interview them to prove a point.

I saw those earlier and was really troubled by them Jura2 - on the one hand they sum up why Brexit terrifies me (what IS it okay to say out loud now, are there any limits?) but on the other they seem really exploitive iykwim. I really don’t think the BBC should be broadcasting such ignorance. The only sensible person in there is the one saying ‘but it gives them ammunition’ - so clearly the bizarre rant from the wannabe Ann Widdecombe was in response to a leavers intervention (which was slightly heartening).

Anyway searching for something sensible and positive from last night I found nothing but did stumble across this I want to laugh at it, but actually it would be really threatening to be in that pub and anything other than white British. twitter.com/michaeljswalker/status/1223381127303438336?s=21

Well it was mentioned that they might and then we were told ( and I have had this confirmed in many ways across many media) that the EU rules prevented our government from offering any help or financial support at all.

It certainly did not stop our government from encouraging other, possibly new industries coming to the areas aprilrose. Nor did it stop them upskilling the population. Everything we had agreed with the EU protected us as much as it protected other countries but none of it stopped our government working. They sat back, took the money, and just blamed everything on the EU however.

I feel that you may well have summed up some of the problems but the EU was controlled by all the countries involved. The issue is the governments needed to work too - some did, ours didn't.

You say "Yesterday made that secure for them." How? If the various governments do no more than they have been doing in the recent past and work just for the wealthy owners and not those further down the money ladder we will be no better off.

The best I can say is that perhaps, one day, we will say that nothing else would have woken up our governments and that having been shocked they changed. If we continue with the only government in our position that thought we needed 10 years of austerity and that the rich had to be pandered to while the poor starved not only will things stay much the same they will actually be worse.

ah well

www.facebook.com/TheProleStar/videos/620476628737954/

Don't you have any feeling that your own government should have been doing something to offset the problems that you experienced?

Well it was mentioned that they might and then we were told ( and I have had this confirmed in many ways across many media) that the EU rules prevented our government from offering any help or financial support at all. Since these were British companies it seems the British government were not allowed to put any funding in , even temporarily, to help. So some sank.

As for the three places I worked for in the 1990's - what exactly could our government do to stop the EU offering luctative packages for companies to go to Poland?

Since most of the EU grants were issued with EU strings attached, what could the government do to change that? One vanity project quite close to me was a cycle path for tourists. The money had to be spent on a cycle path. It could not be spent on anything else. That was the EU rule. So we got a cycle path no one uses - not even the tourists who it seems would rather get run over on a main A road with traffic doing 60mph even though the path is in sight of the road, is raised and has a verge between it and the road to keep them safe.

Other projects were never really viable but again the money came from the EU and had to spent on what they stipulated. When they ( the EU) decided not to fund them further, the projects dried up and more jobs were lost. We need real jobs, not vanity projects.

I know my firm is not a vanity projet. There are real jobs in the pipeline for the young people leaving school and university now and for the forseeable future. Yesterday made that secure for them.

Opal you really aren't that stupid or you would not have survived. Do you not believe the facts that talk about a majority every time you don't fit the description?

I am currently listening to one leaver on Any Questions describing a perfectly reasonable point Ken Clarke made as "negativity" because he was making a fact-based point not calling up a sound bite.

I don't think many leavers actually understand what can be considered intolerance and childishness.

Opal - it’s peer reviewed research based on statistics - not an opinion piece.

My experience has been the exact opposite. It has been those who had a remain mindset who have been nasty and intolerant and childish.

So are you telling me that all those wanting to leave indulged in intelligent, fact-lead discussion, reflecting on the points others made and never becoming personal? If so you were on another planet to the one I seem to have been on.

Namsnanny - love it, totally agree.
Nezumi
"Leave voting is associated with older age" - I'm not that old;
"white ethnicity" - check
"low educational attainment" - I have a degree
"infrequent use of smartphones and the internet" - I use them every day and have done for many years
"receiving benefits" - none
"adverse health" - very healthy thank you
"low life satisfaction" - I love my life

Maybe the said article was written by a young black privately-educated healthy wealthy IT consultant, living in cloud-cuckoo land with absolutely no clue about us "plebs" who voted Leave, eh????

@aprilrose Sat 01-Feb-20 13

Don't you have any feeling that your own government should have been doing something to offset the problems that you experienced? Why was it down to the EU. As a country, we have been far better off. Why is it only now our government is at least paying lip service to the lack of investment in some parts of the country and some sectors of the population.

You may have got the attention of our governments - no bad thing - but you may also have cut off, to a greater or lesser degree the means to make those changes.

Statistics are fact, not opinion.

But lemon, this is where you truly do not understand the reality of the situation. People will not accept that we have now left, and they won't move on. One of the main reasons it all happened very quickly at the end of last year (apart from the EU Directive on tax evasion) - is that Johnson and co knew, clearly, that opinion was changing and that if there was a revote, it would have very probably been lost.

Even Johnson himself could not be asked (my sp) to be at the celebrations, as he knew they would be nationalistic and embarrassing. On Monday, there will not be a weekly cheque for 350m for the NHS- and promise after promise, after promise, will be broken- one by one, slowly and probably fastly... and surely. And Trade Deals will be very hard to come by, and request our loyalty and vassalage in such a way, that the 'take back control' will be clearly seen as utter nonsense.

And the numbers will grow. Remainers have already metamorphosed overnight as 'Rejoiners' and many others will join them. This is not an insult, and not petty either- but the reality. Whether you, and yours, like it or not.

I have no crystal ball, but I do believe 100% that history will not be on your side.

Because two halves of the country fundamentally disagree and those who wanted to leave the EU are childish and nasty?

My experience has been the exact opposite. It has been those who had a remain mindset who have been nasty and intolerant and childish.