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Trump cleared. An outrage.

(78 Posts)
Jane10 Wed 05-Feb-20 21:38:59

Unbelievable. What is wrong with Americans? How can it be right that Trump has been cleared? How can Republican senators sleep at night? How can they even look at themselves in the mirror? This is so fundamentally wrong.

SirChenjin Wed 05-Feb-20 21:43:27

It’s not unbelievable at all. It’s a tragic state of affairs and shows the US political system for the filth it is, but it’s 100% believable and expected.

lemongrove Wed 05-Feb-20 21:44:49

I don’t think there is any surprise by the result though, it was predicted right from the start.
Looks like DT may well have a second term in office😱

Hithere Wed 05-Feb-20 21:50:20

Lol, it is a miracle he got impeached.

SirChenjin Wed 05-Feb-20 21:51:38

A second term and then he’s gone - gone for good, and straight to prison hopefully. We can but hope.

sweetonion Wed 05-Feb-20 21:53:45

It's all about power. Keep that in mind. The only way the republicans can maintain their power is to have a republican president. Sleep or integrity, for that matter, is a moot point when you're addicted to power.

So much for democracy! It's been nice knowing you!

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 21:55:32

He’s got 5 years - plenty of time to completely screw us in cahoots with golden boy so beloved of the right wing on here.

rosecarmel Wed 05-Feb-20 22:05:43

A second term isn't necessarily within his grasp- However, should he win a second term, it wouldn't surprise me if the Republicans challenge the Constitution and revise presidential term limits- Laying out the legal path to that revision may already be in the works?

Reince Priebus just said that Donald Trump gets to view Donald Trump through his own lens ..

MaizieD Wed 05-Feb-20 22:14:52

I am astounded that it wasn't a matter for the Courts.

Why isn't impeaching the President for breaking the law a matter for the courts, rosecarmel? Is it something to do with the President having to be tried by his peers?

I don't know which Constitution is proving to be the easiest to trample all over, your or ours hmm Whichever it is, it's bad news for the UK and the US.

sodapop Wed 05-Feb-20 22:20:31

Spot on Hithere

Urmstongran Wed 05-Feb-20 22:36:55

Pelosi looses bigly.

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 22:39:31

Yes rose it’s hard to imagine his giving up being President. I was astonished to learn that the rules for the Senate trial were not set in statute-a vote to decide whether to hear witnesses/evidences? And this is the country we have hitched our star to? By late summer, no deal with the EU and we’re in the hands of this complete charlatan.

Yehbutnobut Wed 05-Feb-20 22:39:41

Just listened to the Jeffrey Epstein prosecutors re Prince Andrew’s lack of cooperation saying ‘you can’t have a fair trial without key witnesses being called’ then it suddenly switched to the live result of Trump’s trial. Ironic what?

rosecarmel Wed 05-Feb-20 22:39:53

The Republicans end goal wasn't acquittal but setting precedent- How do they plan to use it and will they get to anytime soon? With a self-admitted criminal lover in office? As long as it isn't a Latino criminal?

This single decision can lead to terrible things and make those terrible things terribly hard to prove ..

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 22:40:20

No Urm we all lose

Yehbutnobut Wed 05-Feb-20 22:40:20

You sound triumphant Urm

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 22:41:30

She is Yeh she is.

Yehbutnobut Wed 05-Feb-20 22:44:15

Trump actually said the Constitution gives him ‘the right to do whatever I want as President’.

Looks like it does and he will do just that if re-elected.

Yehbutnobut Wed 05-Feb-20 22:44:58

suzie nobody it that stupid.

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 22:48:23

I read that the whole purpose of keeping DT in office is to give time for the complete packing of the Supreme Court for decades. Women and blacks will be the losers. And BJ wants to control our Supreme Court appointments. I’d say be very afraid but there’s plenty of women who back BJ and DT and can’t wait for Gilead

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 22:48:47

Yep they are

Yehbutnobut Wed 05-Feb-20 22:56:02

Wow!

Urmstongran Wed 05-Feb-20 23:02:05

You 2 would be great at tag team wrestling.
😂

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 23:03:04

Grow up

quizqueen Wed 05-Feb-20 23:06:47

Remainer outrage, Trump outrage, Nigel outrage, Brexit outrage and so on and so on-it's all getting very samey and boring now. One day perhaps you'll all wake up and realise that you keep being on the same losing side and that's because you are in the minority, no matter how loud and often you complain!!!

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 23:08:25

If you say so quiz if you say so

Urmstongran Wed 05-Feb-20 23:09:27

Nail on head quizqueen.

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 23:11:30

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 23:13:21

So quiz and Urm believe what DT did re Ukraine wax perfectly acceptable. Wow just wow..

suziewoozie Wed 05-Feb-20 23:13:37

Was

MaizieD Wed 05-Feb-20 23:44:35

Being in the minority doesn't make one wrong.

I've been resisting the urge to compare for some time now, but I have to say that people who opposed Hitler were in the minority...

I'm right with you, suziewoozie and I'm sure that others are...

rosecarmel Thu 06-Feb-20 00:19:13

Yep!

Ginny42 Thu 06-Feb-20 00:20:31

It was never going to end any other way was it in a trial without witnesses? He now has carte blanche to continue to do just as he pleases and can look forward success in the November election carried by the waves of Republican euphoria.

The comparisons are becoming more apparent MaizieD and the same is happening here i.e. the attempt to exclude sections of the press from a briefing in Downing Street. Scary isn't it?

rosecarmel Thu 06-Feb-20 01:03:27

Trump Tweeted a video of himself running for President indefinitely-

Jane10 Thu 06-Feb-20 06:40:57

God help America with that cartoon bad guy in office.

varian Thu 06-Feb-20 07:51:47

Following the Watergate scandal US Prssident Richard Nixon resigned becore he could be impeached.

In 1977 he agreed to be interviewed on tv by David Frost (for a huge fee).

Nixon admitted that he did unethical things, adding, "When the President does it, that means it's not illegal." A stunned Frost was on the verge of inducing a confession when Nixon's minder burst into the room and stopped the recording.

Does Donald Trump now believe that he can do what he likes because, as Nixon claimed, "if the President does it it is not illegal"?

Pittcity Thu 06-Feb-20 08:48:53

Stolen from Facebook: "The Hamburglar was found Not Guilty at the trial about “Who Stole The Hamburgers?”"

JenniferEccles Thu 06-Feb-20 11:02:48

Ironically the failed impeachment attempt could end backfiring on the Democrats.

Apparently Trump’s supporters are even more likely to rally round him as they tend to view it as ‘their’ impeachment.

Not the result the Democrats were hoping for!

Urmstongran Thu 06-Feb-20 11:11:20

Trump definitely will get 4 more years now. There is no credible (or popular) opposition.

maddyone Thu 06-Feb-20 11:45:53

SirChenin is right, it’s not unbelievable, actually it’s entirely believable knowing the USA. What’s unbelievable is that people are surprised.

Jane10 Thu 06-Feb-20 13:06:28

Sorry. I just thought that it's wrong to break the law, that bullying is wrong, that senators of all parties might just know right from wrong, that integrity counts.
I'm glad I'm not so cynical that I just nod it through or expect it.

Yehbutnobut Thu 06-Feb-20 15:37:25

Well....had an interesting conversation with my BiL last night. A previous Trump supporter, but one (of many I suspect) who voter for him against his better judgment because he a) didn’t like Hilary and b) because he thought as a ‘businessman’ he might bring something different and positive to politics.

No intention of backing him again. He lies, he tries to wriggle out of everything and he’s embarrassing. That was the gist of his conversation. I suspect there are quite a few disillusioned Americans out there.

Yes, those who think his core supporters, those racist red necks and a certain type of woman, will continue to support him are correct, but thinking Americans are disillusioned and, yes, embarrassed by him.

Jane10 Thu 06-Feb-20 16:01:55

That's reassuring. Fingers crossed they reflect this change of heart at the ballot box.

Urmstongran Thu 06-Feb-20 16:12:42

Let’s be honest, the Democrats have made a mess of what should have been an easy job of going into the Presidential elections with a candidate more likely to win than Donald Trump.

Instead Donald Trump is currently at a personal high with ratings at 49%, seemingly benefiting from the Impeachment proceedings.

How did this happen?

By the Democrats being too obsessed with trying to find legal devices to remove Trump from office, and giving too little attention to getting behind a good candidate and promoting good policies which would appeal to Americans right across the whole of the USA.

Even Nancy Pelosi’s tearing up the State of the Union speech looked more like a Trump-style, petulant gesture just when the Democrats needed to show that they offered something more “adult”.

And that’s before we get started on the Iowa debacle.

SirChenjin Thu 06-Feb-20 16:21:50

Not at all Urm. Remember that DT didn’t win a majority of votes last time and still has a less than favourable rating. It’s interesting that you think Pelosi’s reaction is worthy of mention but haven’t discussed any of Trump’s low life behaviour leading up to this.

soop Thu 06-Feb-20 16:51:32

I cannot for the life of me understand why it is that the American people who have faith in Donald Trump, appear to be oblivious to the man lurking behind the mask.

MaizieD Thu 06-Feb-20 16:52:32

I've seen some talk of Trump's fragile mental state; suggestions that he appears to be exhibiting Alzheimers type symptoms. If this is so, would he make it through to November? Or through another term as POTUS?

MaizieD Thu 06-Feb-20 16:58:25

Trump style gestures seem to work very well for Trump, Ug.

Perhaps Pelosi feels that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...

rosecarmel Thu 06-Feb-20 17:18:46

He's his own executive producer of his own show- Today at the National Prayer Breakfast, he came across as exhausted- He blamed the Democrats for causing him and his family suffering-

He sets the stage-

I don't think his American base believes him- What they do believe is that he'll give them attention, they've already given up hope- And he knows it- He looked at the millions neglected by prior administrations, gave them a shout out, and collected their votes- Impoverished as the day is long, they still find a ways to donate 5 dollars to his campaign, rides to his rallys, because he showers them with attention -

Urmstongran Thu 06-Feb-20 17:51:52

His popularity rating is like Boris’ though - 51%. The people like them! Well, not all, obviously.

rosecarmel Thu 06-Feb-20 18:16:41

People do like them- All people might even like them but not for what either of them represent, since they both only represent a percentage of all citizens- People adored Obama, too- But he didn't represent everyone either- As a result .. here we are ..

Approval ratings in the US have been consistant, more disapprove than approve- But polls don't represent votes-

SirChenjin Thu 06-Feb-20 18:45:01

49% - and not necessarily so... www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/06/has-trumps-approval-rating-really-shot-up-49-percent-probably-not/%3foutputType=amp

varian Thu 06-Feb-20 19:04:33

About the same as it was when he got 3 million less votes than Hillary Clinton.

Urmstongran Thu 06-Feb-20 19:40:00

But it’s their system. Ours is also annoying, to some.

Urmstongran Thu 06-Feb-20 19:44:27

On Monday, the Democratic party held its “first-in-the-union” caucuses in Iowa.

It should have been a warning shot to Trump: be afraid – the Democratic candidates of 2020 are coming for you!

But a catastrophic IT glitch meant the results could not be tabulated, and the caucuses descended into farce. Neutral observers were left wondering: if the party can’t organise a vote in a small state, how can it expect to run the country?

With the Democrats embarrassing themselves so spectacularly, almost nobody noticed that Donald Trump had won his own party’s caucus in the same state by an enormous margin.

He has killed the #NeverTrump Republican faction, and can claim to be the most popular leader on the Right since Reagan.

On Tuesday, a poll came out showing Trump had hit 49 per cent job approval, the highest since he took office. Barack Obama ended his first term on 46 per cent.

Davidhs Thu 06-Feb-20 19:58:41

In my book Trump is a odious boor that should have never been elected, despite being a vey clumsy diplomat his popularity is increasing, the economy is doing well and he hasn’t actually started any wars. In fact US military interference overseas is decreasing.

Politics are very polarized in the US, they hate each other with a passion, the Democrats don’t seem very organized yet, whereas Trump is off to a flying start. Before you demean Trump do remember our own PM is a very similar character

Urmstongran Thu 06-Feb-20 20:08:02

Correct David

In that State of the Union speech, Trump went through his achievements as commander-in-chief.

Any fair-minded observer would have to admit that he has plenty to brag about.

Stock markets continue to defy gravity. He’s winning his trade wars. Unemployment has hit record lows and wages are rising, especially at the lower end. He has cut taxes and created a more business-friendly regulatory environment.

He has conducted a judicial revolution, installing many conservative judges to protect the constitution on one hand, while reforming the criminal justice system to be fairer to prisoners on the other. He has also launched Space Force, which is wonderfully weird.

He may not have built his wall – at least not much of it – but his “remain in Mexico” anti-asylum policy has dramatically reduced illegal immigration. “I keep my promises,” the president said. “We did our job.”

SirChenjin Thu 06-Feb-20 20:37:03

So say Freddy Gray, formerly the literary editor of the American Conservative, and deputy editor of the Catholic Herald, writing in the Telegraph.

Tut tut Urm - remember to reference your source otherwise people will think you’re trying to pass off pro Trump rhetoric as your own work.

Urmstongran Thu 06-Feb-20 21:36:34

Sorry 😐
Yes quite right SirChenjin I got carried away by his article and didn’t reference it. I usually do remember to put in quotation marks if I post from an article.

Lolo81 Fri 07-Feb-20 03:15:02

@quizqueen, I obviously have my own personal political beliefs, and I have on various occasions attempted to understand why there has been such a dramatic shift to the right in recent years. Unfortunately I have never actually had anyone explain to me why they think this is the right thing for the western world. I am genuinely curious as to the policies/ideology that make you think this is the way to go? I am not looking for an argument as seems to be the “go to” on many of these posts - I would really like to hear a researched viewpoint to try and see what I am so far missing.

rosecarmel Fri 07-Feb-20 04:00:14

Construction and mining are two big areas where Trump has created jobs (up)

But manufacturing and agriculture (down)

Trump promised farmers and manufacturers the moon, he did not deliver on that promise- Yet-

Fatal and non-fatal occupational injury are both on the rise-
Predominately older workers-

The trucking and distribution industry is in desperate need of employees-

Many people hold down more than one part time job and don't have health insurance-

Mergers that should have never been allowed are making a mess of health care, and as anticipated, causing human harm- Many insured have recently been forced into receiving their prescriptions via mailorder- If they choose to have them filled at their local pharmacy, their insurance won't cover it- They'll have to pay full cost- Prescriptions are arriving late or not at all- The prescription insurance company hasn't enough staff to handle all the calls-

Since Trump took office, fewer people have healthcare coverage, the numbers increased each year-

Wages have increased but personal debt has increased even more-

MaizieD Fri 07-Feb-20 08:12:34

Please keep telling us like it is, rosecarmel,

Urmstongran Fri 07-Feb-20 08:15:58

Wages have increased but personal debt has increased even more-

Same over here in the U.K. apparently rosecarmel.

Thank you for raising some issues from the other point of view. It made for a balanced and interesting read.

Urmstongran Fri 07-Feb-20 08:16:32

X posts MaizieD
😊

Davidhs Fri 07-Feb-20 09:17:08

Just like the UK and most countries there is plenty of poverty in the US, there are the haves and the have nots, that happens everywhere.
Trump won the last the last election against the odds for two reasons. 1) Hillary Clinton was not liked or trusted by many, especially women, who might otherwise have voted Democrat. 2) Obama was universally loathed by all Republicans even the centrists, not just the rednecks. Clinton was a big mistake, a different candidate would likely have won.

Republicans believe that Trump has raised the Morale and self respect of the US with a much stronger foreign policy as well as domestic affairs, whoever emerges as the Democrat candidate has a mountain to climb.

Callistemon Fri 07-Feb-20 09:49:39

Yehbutnotbut that is interesting.

However, I wondered if this would just strengthen support for him.
Poor Donald, those bad people, very bad people were out to get him.

Jane10 Fri 07-Feb-20 10:46:14

Trump is a very bad man by any standard of judgement. angry

Yehbutnobut Fri 07-Feb-20 13:55:47

And it’s all ‘bullshit’ according to him.

Yehbutnobut Fri 07-Feb-20 13:57:29

That incidentally was a quote from the IMPOTUS.

Vulgar, yes. But what do you expect?

Hithere Fri 07-Feb-20 14:32:44

Impotus, love it!

rosecarmel Fri 07-Feb-20 16:40:59

Health care in the US is a pyramid-

Those in government positions receive the best health insurance coverage-

Next are those who receive coverage through their employer- The employer pays a portion of the cost, the employee pays a portion- These well known insurance companies only work with employers-

Next is Medicare- A federal government insurance program for 65+, disabled, and people with end stage renal disease- It's paid for by the insured -

Obamacare- The double-edge sword of the bunch- Without it, Americans that don't fall into the above categories (or below) would be without a healthcare option- None- With it, Americans can still be out of luck since policy options vary regarding what's covered, and the company options vary not only by state but also county as well as zipcode- And aside from a "life event", such as death of a spouse, you can only apply for it between November and December-

Medicaid and other federally, state and county funded coverages are only available to those who qualify and fall below the poverty line- Again, not all medical facilities accept them-

Millions of Americans cannot afford Obamacare but do not qualify for Medicaid and low income options-

To clarify- The insurance companies that work with employers are well known and widely accepted- Those that work with Obamacare are not and not accepted everywhere-

Why?

Corporate law protects profits- By law, corporations do not have to offer healthcare options to part time employees- By law, they do not have to offer full time positions- So they don't- As a result, more than 2/3 of Americans work more than one part time job- About 1/3 work full time-

Americans are at the mercy of corporate law- That's not a booming economy, it's capitalism at its worse- Necessary spending leaves Americans in increasing, personal debt-

varian Sat 08-Feb-20 08:41:10

Trump stoops to a new low

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-speech-impeachment-pelosi-steve-scalise-debbie-lesko-elise-stefanik-a9323541.html

Davidhs Sat 08-Feb-20 10:07:23

“”Women don’t love their husbands”
Is he speaking from experience, does Melania love him ?.

Jane10 Sat 08-Feb-20 10:08:42

Nope!

Callistemon Sat 08-Feb-20 10:10:30

There are lies awash on the internet about Nancy Pelosi too.

Now who started those I wonder hmm

rosecarmel Mon 10-Feb-20 18:35:36

Today he announced a new budget ... To reduce social safety net funding and allot more towards the military and building the "wall"..

Hithere Mon 10-Feb-20 18:39:05

I cannot wait for November.

rosecarmel Tue 11-Feb-20 05:43:17

The party holding office during impeachment never won the following election-

I don't know if that formula will hold up against a party of 1: Donald Trump- The Republicans have become Republican in name only- They've become who they represent- And who they represent have become followers of 1-

It's the most divided our country has been in modern times- The Civil War was the last- We've yet to reach that depth of division-

The government can't fix the division- It consistently deepens the rift- Its up to the people-