Here's an opportunity for all the Leavers

Maizie d

'Why not? There is absolutely no-one to call him to account. Could it be subject to a legal challenge?'
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Johnson does hold the majority in Parliament but to abolish the Justice and Security Act 2013 would be challenged not only in Parliament but also The Lords and Courts.

I do not think there is any chance of that happening but you do so we will have to agree to disagree.

It is a fact, POGS, that Johnson is a compulsive serial liar and his word cannot be trusted. Yes, it's a 'fact' that he has said the report will be posted. He is perfectly capable of going back on his word.

There is absolute no chance Cummings or Johnson could possibly abolish the Intelligence and Security Committee

Why not? There is absolutely no-one to call him to account. Could it be subject to a legal challenge?

He could constitute a new committee under a different name with much the same functions. Then claim that the Select Comm. that compiled the report no longer exists so there is no need to publish it..

growstuff

'Apparently, Johnson had already made a number of redactions'
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Redactions are done for security reasons and I think there are '' many eyes ' looking for that.

There is absolute no chance Cummings or Johnson could possibly abolish the Intelligence and Security Committee no matter if you think they are ' shysters '

As for saying:-

' He's squirming '. Is he, or just going through due process?.

We will each have our own opinion but at least ' facts' should be part of the equation before deciding.

POGS, I'm not holding my breath about it because I doubt there will be anything incriminating left in it. Apparently, Johnson had already made a number of redactions. As you say, it had been signed off and there isn't anything else to be done before publication. It just seems very suspicious. He's squirming and people will think there must be a reason for that.

growstuff Mon 10-Feb-20 14:35:39

'When If the Intelligence and Security Committee is reconstituted. I wouldn't put it past this scheming bunch of shysters - with advice from Cummings - to abolish the committee.'
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Dear lord what utter rubbish.

You can see how partisan politics leads to conspiracy theories that to be honest makes some look silly.

The Report was given to the Prime Minister on October 17th 2019.

Parliament was dissolved on November 6th 2019.

That was 20 days in my reckoning for the PM to read it and approve the release. There was nothing unusual for a Report to be published outside of 20 days.

During that time the political landscape of Brexit/General Election took center stage and Parliament was dissolved as we know.

On winning the General Election the Prime Minister ' signed off ' the report on Dec 16th. The Parliamentary procedure follows that the ' Newly ' formed Intelligence and Security Committee must take up position before it's release and that is where we are.

Now I know the likes of Dominique Grieve, Hilary Clinton et al who are no friends of Boris Johnson tried to discredit the PM but there is also a complete failure to understand that in fact nothing unusual has happened but hey politics is a game of spin and accusation.

If Boris Johnson holds back the release of the Russia report after the new Intelligence and Security Committee sanctions the release I will hold him to account.

Time will tell.

It would appear that the Prime Minister is responsible for nominating members for the Committee. but so far, has declined to do so.

There are apparently legal actions ongoing to force publication.

Dominic Grieve was the last Committee Chairperson, so knows what's in the report.

When If the Intelligence and Security Committee is reconstituted. I wouldn't put it past this scheming bunch of shysters - with advice from Cummings - to abolish the committee.

The Russian Report was ready for release before the end of the last government. The Chair of the the Intelligence and Security Committee, Dominic Grieve, said that it had been cleared for publication and there was no reason at all why its release should be delayed. It was blocked by the PM

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-news-russia-report-intelligence-agency-grieve-a9187616.html

BORIS JOHNSON

The report will of course be published—as the hon. Gentleman knows full well—when the Intelligence and Security Committee is reconstituted, and I think that his conspiratorial frame of mind is likely to be thoroughly disappointed by the results.

I am completely aware of this, POGS. You might believe this compulsive serial liar; I, and many other people, don't.

I agree with your last sentence POGS.

Democracy isn't just about putting a cross in a box. A healthy democracy depends on a pro-active public, which isn't passive about what's going on. The government must be accountable for what it does. It needs to keep its promises. Otherwise, democracy is meaningless.

If the Russia Report shows that people acted illegally, they must be named and action taken.

There are enough warning bells about the way this government has acted in the short time it's been in power for me to be cynical about its motivations. Maybe the majority of people don't care, but I do - and others do too.

That doesn't mean I don't accept the result of the referendum, but nothing is ever static.

Greta Mon 10-Feb-20 11:31:58

'Did the Government not indicate that the report on Russian interference would be published after the election. Has anybody seen it?'
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MaizieD Mon 10-Feb-20 12:03:10

'I doubt it will ever see the light of day, Greta. The people running the government now are the same people who ran the Leave campaign. The last thing they want is any light shone on their actions.

And I reserve my absolute right to keep repeating this, however much it might annoy the Leavers on here.'
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It is not so much having the right to repeat your point that is annoying it is the fact you do not check to understand what is happening before making statements.

This is from PMQ' s 5th February 2020:-

OWEN THOMPSON SNP whip

"We know that the Prime Minister has form in ducking democratic scrutiny at every opportunity and that his party is no stranger to receiving Russian donations, but his repeated refusal to publish the report on Russian interference in UK democracy is unjustifiable and unacceptable. Will he tell us clearly, without bluff and bluster, when the report will be published, why it has been delayed for so long, and when he will reconvene the Intelligence and Security Committee?

BORIS JOHNSON

The report will of course be published—as the hon. Gentleman knows full well—when the Intelligence and Security Committee is reconstituted, and I think that his conspiratorial frame of mind is likely to be thoroughly disappointed by the results.
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As we know Parliament was ' dissolved ' for the purpose of the General Election and therefore the Intelligence and Security Committee, as with other committees, is awaiting the announcement of it's new appointments.

So when The Russia Interference report will be released is unknown but excuses would not be a viable position now for the Government I agree.

Noooooooo

Not spit ' SPOT' on. Phew.

Grandad

Your post of 11.04 certainly resonates with me.

Spit on.

MaizieD, in regard to your post @11:23 today, there are undoubtedly questions over the way the leave campaign conducted their campaign during the referendum. However, that is now all "water under the bridge", and as I stated in my post @11:04 today there can be now no other attitude for this nation but one of we go forward from where Britain now finds itself.

The United Kingdom has now left the European Union and therefore there is no other attitude but the above that can, or will, produce any positive results.

By example to the above, we in our business spent many long hours last week completely separating the operations of our European office from those which are carried out in our British Offices. The legislation that controls industrial Safety in both Europe and the United Kindom has now unlocked and may not stay in alignment. Therefore both sectors of the business must now reflect that fact and become independent and self-sustaining both financially and operationally.

We all regretted having to carry out the above, but there could be no other option if the business is to be sustainable and effectively operational into the future.

Many other British businesses are now carrying out similar to the above to maintain sustainability which is all very sad but a very necessary action and attitude.

Very good answer, easybee.

It doesn't annoy us.
You are perfectly entitled to express your opinion.
That is democracy.

I doubt it will ever see the light of day, Greta. The people running the government now are the same people who ran the Leave campaign. The last thing they want is any light shone on their actions.

The result, although a dreadful shock and, IMO. a disastrous decision, I could have come to terms with had not so much emerged since about the devious, illegal, and undemocratic nature of the main Leave campaigns.

And I reserve my absolute right to keep repeating this, however much it might annoy the Leavers on here.

Did the Government not indicate that the report on Russian interference would be published after the election. Has anybody seen it?

^ I firmly believe that democracy has won in the final outcome of the debate^

I can only assume, Grandad, that you are completely unaware of the serious questions which have been raised over the nature of the Leave Campaigns; illegal funding, foreign intervention, illegal data scraping from social media accounts, use of targeted advertising, not universally available for everyone to see, to judge, and to respond to. Not to mention the 'industrial strength' lies (all on record but all being furiously backpedalled on or deleted).

Either you're not aware of all these things or you're happy to close your eyes to them and condone the actual death of democracy which these things contribute to.

Varian, with regard to your post @8:03 today, you state that "Democracy has lost. We have all lost".

In the above, and speaking as someone who voted Remain in the referendum, I firmly believe that democracy has won in the final outcome of the debate as to whether Britain should remain or leave the European Union.

There was a prevalence among all those who took part in the referendum ballot, and those that did not clearly held no views on the matter. Therefore, those who polled to leave held a valid democratic majority in that end outcome.

What all in this nation should now be concentrating on at this point in time is for Britain to make the best of the position it now finds itself in. Therefore, there is only one attitude to take, and that must be that we go forward from where we all are, for that will be the only way to ensure the most promising future possible for our children and grandchildren.

No other attitude holds any future for anyone.

It would be good, though, Lemongrove, to read about just what legislation leavers will be pressing for to help exports and customs control and minimise the adulteration of food with substances that we so far have not allowed in, to get immigration for key employment fields while avoiding being a magnet for economic migrants from the whole globe, to ensure everyone has enough to live on while clamping down on benefit fraud at all levels, to put safety regulations in place that don't make it viability impossible, food safety without "banning bent bananas" and so on and so forth.

All sweetness and light? Not humanly possible, but it is possible to discuss without personal vituperation.

Like Chestnut just had a peek on here ( and once is enough)
Just the usual moaning indeed.

Actually Elegran you are right in saying you ‘don’t achieve that by snarling at each other’ but wrong to assume that you do achieve it by being reasonable/ all sweetness and light on here either, because whatever is said, the angry posters who are carrying on ‘carrying on’ don’t want either response.
‘Show us your reasons’ they howl ‘ Give us answers!’ Well,
No, it’s over, we have left the EU with no going back and they will have to wait and see for themselves what transpires.
No answer to any question will be good enough for them, because at the heart of it, all they really want is to vent their
Anger/ disappointment/ discontent.
Am guessing these kind of threads will continue into next year and then dwindle.
I won’t be reading them though.

That doesn't answer my question, Opal. Which features do you think are being undermined? You can leave out the sovereignty bit and the democracy bit for the moment. They have had ample airing.

I would like to know which practical and measurable features of ordinary life are being undermined by remainers pointing out the lost advantages of trading as part of a larger European community, and sharing common goals with them. No ranting and spite, just clear and calm statements.

Note that I made a distinction between "carrying someone" and "carrying them WITH you" People can agree to be swept along in the crowd on the enthusiasm of others and join them in achieving their goal, in spite of having doubts about the concept, and become part of a general movement. That is being carried with them - and if the promises of the leavers are to be fulfilled, the work of all will be necessary..

Carrying lazy colleagues who contribute nothing is a different thing.

Many of those who voted to remain are in key positions for maximising UK trading and legislation, and many others (including a lot of Gransnet remainers) are in less exalted positions, but doing their best for the economy and the social milieu. They are not going to suddenly down tools AGAINST the country's prosperity and have to be carried. They need to be carried with you. You don't achieve that by snarling at each other.

We have to accept that we have left the EU but we do not have to accept that democracy has won. Democracy has lost. We have all lost.

Gloating leavers do not speak for everyone. They cannot even speak for themselves when they are asked what they have gained. The only thing that matters to them is saying " we won, suck it up" like a, playground bully.

This "everyone" they talk about who thinks like a gloating leaver may mean everyone who reads The Daily Express but not everyone who cares about our country and worries aboutt the harm done to the lives of their children and grandchildren.

No wonder there is such despair.

Carrying doubterswith you to help you towards a goal is not quite the same as "carrying" useless people on your back. You have to use a lot of tact and subtlety and persuade everyone that it was the right move

Respectfully Elegran, I don't have to carry anyone, and don't intend to, especially the moaning minnies on GN. Tact and subtlety were never a strong point of mine, I'd much rather say it as it is, quite frankly. If you think that makes me "brutal", so be it. I just think it's realistic.
Everyone I know, whether a "leaver" or a "remainer", is heartily sick of the whingers who refuse to accept that we have now left the EU and are still constantly moaning about the UK. Yes they should suck it up and move on, it's happening at last, democracy has won (despite Varian banging that constant bloody drum) and the vast majority of people in this country want to make a success of it.